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Old 12-25-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
4,121 posts, read 4,705,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthur View Post
After reading this thread, I realized that the difference between the Gold people and the non Gold people comes down to their station in life. The ones that popo Gold and say that Gold is a bad investment see all wealth as a way to make more wealth, this could be based in a desire to have more then the next guy and never being satisfied with themselves or their environment. The non Gold people make the fatal mistake of seeing Gold as an investment.

The people that are pro Gold have reached a comfortable time in their life and are generally content and have excess funds and need a place to store and diversify their wealth above and beyond normal needs of life. So transferring wealth into Gold and Silver is the obvious answer.


The anti Gold people seem to have a need to put down advocates of Gold to make themselves feel superior, which fits the first paragraph explanation. Gold people mostly have a larger view of the world then the non Gold people and can see a little clearer picture of themselves and the future.

Gold people are still investors with stock holdings, financial tools such as; CD's, Real estate, and cash, but do want some insurance in the 10% range of their wealth with PM's.
You couldn't be more wrong. The way most (not all) people become comfortable in life is by being smart. Smart in business, smart in investing, smart in a variety of ways. And investing in gold (and other commodities) is not smart.

I'm active in an investing forum. It is full of people both starting out, and people who have "won the game". Wanna guess how much gold talk there is? Less than zero.

Gold is not an investment vehicle. It's a commodity.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:56 AM
 
71,762 posts, read 71,853,273 times
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many of the gold bugs have done far from well and being comfortable . their doomsday views left them quite poorer since many avoided conventional investing .

that whole post by garther makes little sense
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:14 AM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,311 posts, read 15,366,122 times
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From dealing with my inlaws, for some holding gold is a religion rather than something done rationally (as investments should be done, with entry and exit strategies). And most people don't appreciate anyone who questions their religious doctrine.
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:59 AM
 
2,296 posts, read 1,564,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
my step brother was a pro day trader on wall street . he only had to trade 2 stocks daily . amgen and trident energy .

when the stocks no longer matched matched the trends in the proprietary software the losses mounted and he got out ..
Day trading, almost without exception, is a losers game long term. But as Warren Buffet says, "Someone has to win the coin flip tournament" so you will hear stories occasionally.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:40 PM
 
7,945 posts, read 5,053,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkmere View Post
Day trading, almost without exception, is a losers game long term. But as Warren Buffet says, "Someone has to win the coin flip tournament" so you will hear stories occasionally.
Most attempts at being svelte and agile are a "loser's game, long-term". A few people on a few occasions will profit handsomely. Most will not. Almost always, whenever we attempt something rapid-fire, which depends on quick reaction and outfoxing the other guy, well, we're the ones who will get outfoxed.

However, there's a large difference between indulging in minor games around the edges, and basing one's entire portfolio on such speculations. Day-trading in $1K increments is no sin, if you're backed by a $4M portfolio in more disciplined investments.

Few here are deprecating gold as a fun and unorthodox vehicle for minor indulgence, or a small portion of one's portfolio that's just sitting there for good measure. But this is very different from betting the preponderance of one's future on gold.

I like gold coins. They're pretty. I wouldn't mind owning a few more. But I wouldn't use them to replace my participation in an S&P500 index fund.
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,945,286 times
Reputation: 6717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever View Post
No, I didn't say that they are.
However, I don't believe that any of the "talking heads" on CNBC had set up their own self-serving gold-marketing mechanism, as did that charlatan--Glenn Beck.

If I am able to beat the major averages most of the time, most people can probably do the same with careful due diligence. Or, they can listen to hucksters like Glenn Beck, and lose an incredible amount of their principal.

I really don't know anything about Glenn Beck - except for the fact that he exists . I do know that various "talking heads" on CNBC - probably most of them - are selling something. Directly or indirectly. Even if it's only the general idea that "now" is a good time to invest in the stock market when they're managing a stock mutual fund.

When it comes to beating the major averages - well the best way to beat a benchmark is by doing things that are outside the parameters of the benchmark you're trying to beat (a practice professional portfolio managers understand and engage in). For example - Fidelity allows you to compare your portfolio performance against a couple of benchmarks - like the SP500 and the Barclay's Aggregate Bond Index IIRC. If - for example - my portfolio was heavily weighted in Nasdaq 100 stocks/sectors this year - or even in a Nasdaq 100 ETF/mutual fund - I would have appeared to have "beaten" the SP500 - but I really didn't. Because the SP500 is a different benchmark.

Professional managers often get bonuses when they outperform their benchmarks. Individual investors don't. I think that individual investors have to concentrate more on putting together portfolios that suit them (based on numerous variables) - and things that influence the net returns of that portfolio (like management fees - taxes - buy/sell spreads - etc.). Which - like you say - can take a fair bit of work. Robyn
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,945,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
Very nicely reasoned. It is quite important to note that day trading is buying individual stocks or positions in the market and changing them by cashing out at highs and lows (short selling). There can be a lot of money to be made in it. In fact many people this is their only source of income. It is stressful and volatile. It is not for the faint of heart nor is it for me. As it is today my wife is my anchor and would find that sort of activity in our life too much and would not allow it. Although I guess I could start off small and work up but I think I would prefer to invest in a boat to while away the time fishing and boating to the stress of buying up the next Enron.
I've met some professional traders over the years. Professional in the sense that it was a full time job for them. Most people who start doing this go down in flames pretty fast. But some are pretty good at it. They survive and can and do make a good living. Some came to trading in unusual ways. One fellow was a fighter pilot who thought his trading screens were like the screens in the cockpit of a fighter plane. Note that things are much faster today than they were even a decade ago. And that the computer set-ups that are necessary for this kind of work can be extraordinarily sophisticated (and automated). Also - most of these traders work in the futures markets using leverage. Knowing how to manage one's positions is an essential survival skill. I can't say this is only a "young person's game" - but being young (and having quick mental and physical reflexes) doesn't hurt.

If anyone is interested in getting a sense of these things - take a look at this magazine:

Modern Trader | Subscribe Today

(FKA Futures Magazine). I've been getting it forever (for free - I guess because of my trading history). Although most of it isn't relevant to what I do - I often get some good perspectives/insights on what I do do (e.g., I do use technical analysis - although my time frame is longer than those of most professional traders).

When it comes to gold - because short term traders use futures and leverage - and because they "go short" much more often than average investors - they can find the gold market interesting at times when most average investors might not.

Overall - I think you've made the right decision for you. Day trading really isn't compatible with improving one's golf game . Robyn
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,945,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses View Post
When I started college gold was $32 per ounce. Unfortunately that would also pay for a month of college-student groceries. Just an interesting tidbit about how the price of gold has risen based as much on emotion as anything.
Don't know when you started college - but the price of gold was "fixed" until 1971 - when it was allowed to float:

InflationData: Is gold really a hedge?

Robyn
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,945,286 times
Reputation: 6717
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Bada Bing! Day trading in retirement is it every day or can you sell at will and take a couple of weeks off? Hopefully MJ or someone can answer.
One can hold positions for as long or as little as you care to (although things like futures or options on futures are contracts with expiration dates - so you can't forget about/have to deal with those expiration dates). Or - depending on the markets - you can "be flat". A lot of day traders will go home "flat" at the end of every day. That's why they're called "day traders" .

The problem with taking weeks off (from any kind of financial market endeavor) is losing the pulse of what's going on. Even when we're on the other side of the world - I always take a little time every day to see what's happening. Even though I'm not a very short term trader. Robyn
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:29 AM
 
7,945 posts, read 5,053,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
When it comes to beating the major averages - well the best way to beat a benchmark is by doing things that are outside the parameters of the benchmark you're trying to beat (a practice professional portfolio managers understand and engage in). For example - Fidelity allows you to compare your portfolio performance against a couple of benchmarks - like the SP500 and the Barclay's Aggregate Bond Index IIRC. If - for example - my portfolio was heavily weighted in Nasdaq 100 stocks/sectors this year - or even in a Nasdaq 100 ETF/mutual fund - I would have appeared to have "beaten" the SP500 - but I really didn't. Because the SP500 is a different benchmark.
The influence of the S&P 500 can not be overestimated!

The S&P 500 is effectively the benchmark for the totality of all investment, whether we're talking about equities (foreign or domestic, large or small,...), real-estate, pork bellies, gold, fine art or carved seashells. When we think of our cumulative annual return, of how we're doing, of whether we're accumulating sufficient funds for retirement and so forth, the immediate question to ask ourselves, is whether or not we've beaten the S&P 500. If we've done so, then we're heroes. If not, then we're fools. Any investor who systematically beats the S&P500 is doing something right. He/she becomes a precious resource for advice. Any investor who loses to the S&P 500 feels necessity to reevaluate, to assess what's wrong and how to improve.
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