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Old 12-23-2015, 01:27 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
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The role and use of Gold is a fundamental part of economic history. It transcends other current and historical mediums of exchange. It's role moving forward is one that folks could if they wanted debate. It's historical role is just that historical. If nothing else physical Gold is a hedge against the unknown moving forward and should not be discounted. In event off the immediate collapse of organized society it's barter value could be minimized but as man rebuilt it could once again be the king of precious metals. For anyone needing a review on barter and mediums of exchange:
http://www.econmancer.com/?p=292
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:52 PM
 
14,487 posts, read 17,366,287 times
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"Has that Gold investment worked for folks retirements?"


No, but it certainly worked to the benefit of Glenn Beck, who constantly flogged his self-serving gold investment schemes on Faux News. The bottom line is that those who were naïve enough to believe the falsehoods constantly spewed on that toxic network, losing their money to Glenn Beck was one of the unfortunate outcomes of their naiveté.

Why would anyone choose to believe a college drop-out with no expertise whatsoever in the realm of investing?


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Old 12-23-2015, 04:09 PM
 
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for the same reason peter schiff made you a lot poorer if you listened to his predictions .
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:15 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
for the same reason peter schiff made you a lot poorer if you listened to his predictions .
Only if you sold! As you so often say about the market crash in 2009 and selling at the bottom. I am not promoting or refuting gold and one of the reasons I asked my OP was wondering how Gold has worked out as a retirement investment. How do you use Gold for draw downs or if in a tax deferred account RMD's. Or is it a long term bucket etc.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
My day trading is for fun and it is amazing how successful it has been .

Of course the volatility in the issues i use will eventually change but for now it has been so predictible.

I bought kmi the day before yesterday and sold it yesterday . Bought it again near the close and will sell it any moment again this morning.

The 200-400 dollar profits almost every other day have been adding up nicely considering this is my vegas money . Been doing this for a few months now
Almost like clock work anytime these issues get slammed they rebound within a day. But if i am wrong a stop loss just gets me out with very little damage.

Correction kmi just sold again
Oh - how long have you been a day trader? Oh - guess you said it - a few months. So - you brag now - and - if you ever start to lose - you will stop talking. Pretty predictable thing for a middle aged guy (I've come across a few in my time). Many just like to look like big swinging dic**. Boys and their toys and all that .

What is this - your new post-retirement hobby?

What tools/data services are you using for your new hobby?

FWIW - I realize that some people who have a fair amount of money which is otherwise invested intelligently need something extra added for "kicks". Like you said - your "Vegas money". If you need this kind of action (I don't) - it is generally suggested that one should never devote more than 5% of one's portfolio to it. Also - beware of stop loss orders in these volatile markets. I never use them. If I did - I would have been stopped out of several positions in the August (forget the exact date) massacre. At very bad prices. Just saying...

I've been trading for a long time now (although for the most part longer term position trading than you're doing now). Also hanging around chat boards with people who trade for a living. Some have genius instincts (more power to them). Many don't have a clue. There are some in the middle like me. Before you sprain your elbow patting yourself on the back - give it a few years. Robyn
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever View Post
"Has that Gold investment worked for folks retirements?"


No, but it certainly worked to the benefit of Glenn Beck, who constantly flogged his self-serving gold investment schemes on Faux News. The bottom line is that those who were naïve enough to believe the falsehoods constantly spewed on that toxic network, losing their money to Glenn Beck was one of the unfortunate outcomes of their naiveté.

Why would anyone choose to believe a college drop-out with no expertise whatsoever in the realm of investing?

And the "talking head" sell side people on CNBC are any better? It is best IMO to do one's own research - and to come up with personal investment/portfolio ideas. That suit you best (one size doesn't fit all). I am glad that I started doing this myself when I was very young. In fits and starts - and making the inevitable mistakes along the way. If I had to start from scratch today now that I am close to 70 - I'm not sure I could do it. Robyn
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:51 PM
 
14,487 posts, read 17,366,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
And the "talking head" sell side people on CNBC are any better?

No, I didn't say that they are.
However, I don't believe that any of the "talking heads" on CNBC had set up their own self-serving gold-marketing mechanism, as did that charlatan--Glenn Beck.

If I am able to beat the major averages most of the time, most people can probably do the same with careful due diligence. Or, they can listen to hucksters like Glenn Beck, and lose an incredible amount of their principal.

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Old 12-23-2015, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
I stopped the permanent portfolio quite a while ago... My managed funds over the long term just ended up blowing the pp away and the pp ended up being no less riskier. Once gold stopped its brief run up the pp no longer had the edge .

The big problem with the pp is it attempts to insure against all outcomes equally when the chances of them playing out are anything but equal.

Insuring the remote flyers with the same amount of money as the most likely makes little investing sense.

The other problem is there is no one in the drivers seat anymore to adjust things as time changes.

A 40 year bull market in bonds made holding long term treasury's no problem.

But today the risk is they will continue normalizing and with weak market returns predicted i believe you don't want anything pulling the lead horse which will likely be equty's backby the collar every time they get some traction.

You are seeing this now ytd as all the fidelity insight models are postive yet the pp is still down for the year.
How many years were you invested in that "permanent portfolio"? As opposed to your couple of months as a "day trader"?

Did you ever hold long term bonds for 40 years? I haven't. I'm only 68. But have made many long term bond investments for perhaps 30-35 years.

You are still buying your advice from a newsletter? Why don't you start on the path of DIY? I have always been a big fan of DIY - for at least the last 30+ years. Knowing exactly what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Don't mind blaming myself if things work out other than I expect. I would rather blame myself than someone who writes a newsletter (and I would learn more from the experience too).

Guess I might lose it one day in terms of managing money. But I suspect that will be at least a few years after I can't play golf (my late FIL and my father handed over their money management to me when they were in their 80's). I keep on top of myself these days - and try to monitor my capabilities best I can. If I ever suspect I am losing it - even in part - I will employ a professional money manager. Robyn
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:08 PM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,829,507 times
Reputation: 49273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Oh - how long have you been a day trader? Oh - guess you said it - a few months. So - you brag now - and - if you ever start to lose - you will stop talking. Pretty predictable thing for a middle aged guy (I've come across a few in my time). Many just like to look like big swinging dic**. Boys and their toys and all that .

What is this - your new post-retirement hobby?

What tools/data services are you using for your new hobby?

FWIW - I realize that some people who have a fair amount of money which is otherwise invested intelligently need something extra added for "kicks". Like you said - your "Vegas money". If you need this kind of action (I don't) - it is generally suggested that one should never devote more than 5% of one's portfolio to it. Also - beware of stop loss orders in these volatile markets. I never use them. If I did - I would have been stopped out of several positions in the August (forget the exact date) massacre. At very bad prices. Just saying...

I've been trading for a long time now (although for the most part longer term position trading than you're doing now). Also hanging around chat boards with people who trade for a living. Some have genius instincts (more power to them). Many don't have a clue. There are some in the middle like me. Before you sprain your elbow patting yourself on the back - give it a few years. Robyn
The quick answer is all seat of the pants. I have been doing these quicks darts in and out for decades periodically for fun typically using TLT ,Gld ,Dbc
but the last few months oil stocks have been so predictable.

The market over does them one day and then they go up within a few days only to fall again.

But since august things have just gotten to the point in action and volatility where just about every other day is an unwinding of the day before .

Just a quick 3-4% and i am out. When this pattern no longer repeats i am done. But for now i have been taking advantage of it.
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,851,516 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Oh - how long have you been a day trader? Oh - guess you said it - a few months. So - you brag now - and - if you ever start to lose - you will stop talking. Pretty predictable thing for a middle aged guy (I've come across a few in my time). Many just like to look like big swinging dic**. Boys and their toys and all that .

What is this - your new post-retirement hobby?

What tools/data services are you using for your new hobby?

FWIW - I realize that some people who have a fair amount of money which is otherwise invested intelligently need something extra added for "kicks". Like you said - your "Vegas money". If you need this kind of action (I don't) - it is generally suggested that one should never devote more than 5% of one's portfolio to it. Also - beware of stop loss orders in these volatile markets. I never use them. If I did - I would have been stopped out of several positions in the August (forget the exact date) massacre. At very bad prices. Just saying...

I've been trading for a long time now (although for the most part longer term position trading than you're doing now). Also hanging around chat boards with people who trade for a living. Some have genius instincts (more power to them). Many don't have a clue. There are some in the middle like me. Before you sprain your elbow patting yourself on the back - give it a few years. Robyn
Very nicely reasoned. It is quite important to note that day trading is buying individual stocks or positions in the market and changing them by cashing out at highs and lows (short selling). There can be a lot of money to be made in it. In fact many people this is their only source of income. It is stressful and volatile. It is not for the faint of heart nor is it for me. As it is today my wife is my anchor and would find that sort of activity in our life too much and would not allow it. Although I guess I could start off small and work up but I think I would prefer to invest in a boat to while away the time fishing and boating to the stress of buying up the next Enron.
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