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Old 12-27-2015, 07:57 PM
Location: SoCal
13,232 posts, read 6,335,450 times
Reputation: 9854


Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we took 3 years to meet the partnership agreement at 350 per day and the payout increases 5% per year .

we figured we can handle any difference in daily rate fine
I've got LTC from work when I first join. It costs me less than $100 a month for $320 a day for 3 years or 5 years. I forgot now, but it's about $500k of benefit. If I need LTC when I'm 85, I would have paid into the system $35k, plus and minus. I don't have to take the inflation if I don't want to.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:17 AM
71,599 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49217
Originally Posted by RiverBird View Post
Yes, so naming the kids as trustees in an RT, if you still own the deed to the home, does nothing to protect it from being countable.
who the trustee is is transparent . you can't own the deed if the assets are in a trust the trust owns it .

so it really becomes a catch 22 with a revocable trust . medicaid can't get to the house but you may not be able to get medicaid because of the house in the trust .

when it comes to estate planning there is no one size fits all . you can either gear up to keep control of your assets and avoid probate with a revocable living trust or you can protect assets from estate taxes and medicaid in an irrevocable trust .

we needed a disclaimer trust . since ny has some wacky estate tax laws we needed protection from them . the LTC POLICY takes care of the medicaid issue so we needed to have two things in place .

while ny is eventually going up to the same limit as the federal gov exemption of 5 million we are not there yet . they have been increasing the estate tax threshold by a million every year .

but the wacky thing is that if you exceed the years threshold by 5% you don't just pay estate tax on the overage , you pay from dollar 1 and lose the entire exemption . it is an insane tax cliff that got created by poor planning out the increases in the exemption .

so we need a disclaimer trust . that is an irrevocable trust that you have 9 months after the death of a spouse to choose to activate or not .

if it isn't needed it then it is business as usual and if it is needed then you throw the switch to activate it . . kind of the best of both worlds . but it is useless for medicaid planning .

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-28-2015 at 04:30 AM..
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:34 AM
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,978,143 times
Reputation: 15649
So if your house is in a Revocable Trust, to get Medicaid you'd have to liquidate that asset and spend it down.

I think I'll die at home, high on something.
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:11 AM
71,599 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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that is the irony of it unless your state has means of an elder law attorney manipulating things . i am no expert when it comes to this stuff . i only know what i am taught .
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:21 AM
Location: Idaho
1,454 posts, read 1,155,436 times
Reputation: 5492
Below are some useful links on asset protections

How an Asset Protection Trust can Protect Your Home and Savings | Marshall, Parker & Weber LLC

Three Ways to Protect your Assets from Nursing Home Costs | Marshall, Parker & Weber LLC

Asset Protection FAQ

How Medicaid Recovers the Cost of Long-Term Care From Your Estate After You Die | Nolo.com
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:31 PM
Location: WA
5,395 posts, read 21,398,752 times
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The laws regarding LTC partnership here in Washington State have only been finalized in the last four years. I plan to pursue the option and look at in-home possibilities now that it is available.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:43 PM
71,599 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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our plan is 3 years in a snf or 6 years in home care as well as assisted living . i give ny credit because i don't see total asset protection given in other states partnership plans , only dollar for a dollar
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:36 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,932,507 times
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Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
robynn , stop , you know zero about our family . there was no way we could ever have taken him in .

we lived in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with a family of 4 people in the projects and barely made ends meet .
my mother had a heart attack giving birth to my sister from an enlarged heart from un-diagnosed rheumatic fever , she could hardly walk herself . she died at age 52 after having a miserable sickly life ..

grandpa needed constant care and had bad memory issues . there was little we could do for him .

we would never ever leave the area if our kids were still here , last thing i want to be is away from them if i need a snf .
I was talking in general - not about you in particular. Don't be so sensitive .

FWIW - as a lawyer - I will say there is a lot of very bad advice here in terms of A saying what might work in state X for someone in a particular situation - and then suggesting that it might work for B in state Y. Again - this is not particular to your messages - just saying in general.

The things I can say in general - in no particular order - are:

1) Irrevocable trusts can be unwieldy and expensive to administer - no matter where you live.

2) All states vary in terms of Medicaid eligibility.

3) Avoiding probate can be important in some states - not others. It is not an important factor in Florida IMO (there is no fixed % fee - one can negotiate hourly fees). And - if you don't go through probate - at least in Florida - you won't wipe out any claims/possible claims against the decedent/his/her estate. Medical - from the fender bender 3 years ago - whatever.

4) Estate and inheritance taxes vary from state to state. And can be important in some - not others. We don't have either in Florida - so it's a non-issue for Florida residents (one reason more seniors with at least a couple of nickels to rub together move from places like New York to Florida than vice versa).

5) SNFs and similar facilities - especially if they're "for profit" - that depend mostly on Medicaid tend to suck - smell of pi** and poop. And be disgusting in other ways. Only a couple of members of our family - a late aunt and a late uncle - wound up in places like this. One in Pennsylvania - the other in California. These places are - IMO - a last resort for people without money IMO - not a place you plan to live in the last years of your life so other taxpayers are paying for you.

6) The cost of senior facilities ranging from independent living to ALF to SNF varies considerably in various parts of the country. Places in cities like New York or Los Angeles or similar cost about 2x what they cost where I live. Although none is cheap.

7) The most important planning issues when it comes to long term care are those that involve a couple with a medium amount of savings. People who are neither rich - nor poor. In terms of what happens to a healthy spouse when the other needs expensive custodial care for perhaps a long period of time - perhaps as a result of something like Alzheimer's. Although the average SNF resident dies in about 2 1/2 years - I've had family members with Alzheimer's who have lasted in various states of dementia for a decade or more. If you''re the last surviving spouse - it's a a pretty much "who cares" IMO (screw the kids). But if your wife/husband is still alive/ok - then you have to care. Robyn

P.S. Another issue is how much help/care can you expect from family members. In our family - our fathers were pretty good in terms of caring for our late mothers. Siblings when it comes to my late FIL and my father have been pretty worthless as far as my husband and I are concerned. It is hard to find out what kids - if you have them - might do for you if/when the need arises.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:42 PM
71,599 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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to me , all this is about our spouse's . leaving a spouse living close to poverty because of poor planning is something most of us wouldn't want to do .

2990 a month which is the medicaid limit for income for a stay at home spouse in nyc is poverty .

an income of 69k for a family of 4 qualify's for getting on the list for a nyc low income housing project .

the biggest mistake folks who should be doing something about having a plan make is thinking that statistics play out here .

they don't , especially is a couple . we can only have two outcomes . either we are not the statistic in the home or we are . we don't know which one is us .

but to make things worse a married couple has two people in the equation that have to be on the right side of the statistics .
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:06 PM
2,563 posts, read 2,791,793 times
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Originally Posted by Blanco111 View Post
In a couple of weeks I will be meeting with an estate attorney to discuss setting up a trust to protect my "estate" should I need to go into an assisted living arrangement. (I'm 63 and perfectly healthy.) The purpose is to have medicare pay for my assisted living, and I wouldn't have to deplete all my assets first to qualify. An investor I work with suggested I do this. She said the asset protection takes effect in five years from the date the trust is completed. The estate attorney charges about $2,000 to set up the trust. The initial consultation is free. Does anyone know anything about this? I once heard there's insurance you can purchase to protect your assets, but that's not what this is.
The short answer: medicare won't pay for assisted-living, nor will Medicaid, regardless of whether your assets are in a trust. Skilled nursing care in a nursing home is something else again. As for the trust business, that's a very complicated matter. You need to talk to an attorney that specializes in elder care in your state. Basically, unless you give away your assets and don't need a nursing home for another five years, a trust won't do you much good.

Actually, most trusts are more trouble than they're worth. Stay away.
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