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Old 01-28-2016, 07:33 AM
 
Location: R.I.
987 posts, read 611,483 times
Reputation: 4291

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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Just to forewarn you, sometimes even after you have been private pay for the required minimum amount of time (in my area you usually have to show that you can pay for two full years to get into a good SNF) the nursing home that "promised" to keep you when Medicaid kicks in suddenly does not have any Medicaid beds available or you may have to be hospitalized for something and when you are released the facility that you came from is now "full" and you need to find a SNF that accepts Medicaid patients from the start or you are transferred to a Medicaid bed on a different wing in the same SNF. Or, if your level of care changes that section of the SNF is "full" so you can't stay anymore.

I am NOT saying that will happen to your MIL, but I have personally known several people who had that happen to their loved one, so don't just assume that she will be in the same situation forever. Yes, she may but she may not.

We are fully aware of this info. My MIL began her stay at this facility on her 90 day Medicare A benefit which was recently exhausted and her Medicaid application is pending. Since she has zip in assets there should be according to the facility social worker no issues with her qualifying for Medicaid. We are also very aware if my MIL requires another hospitalization she could loose her bed at this facility. It is what it is, and unfortunately my in laws did no preplanning for their senior years, spent every last dime they had on slot machines, expensive cars, fur coats, etc. which has now left my MIL very little choice with her nursing home living arrangements. My husband does the best he can in overseeing her care, visits her at least 4 x week to make sure she is getting the necessary care, and that will continue if in the event she should end up in a less desirable facility in the future.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,250 posts, read 8,589,533 times
Reputation: 35712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
That seems to be the case in my late FIL's SNF from the income/expense pie charts I've seen - at least when it comes to Medicaid/full list price cost patients. I don't know if insurance companies can or do negotiate lower rates. This particular facility also relies on and gets a lot from community fundraising (as a private religious based place).

In all honesty - when I look at the cost of SNFs today - approaching $100k/year even in my relatively medium cost spread part of the US - well I can hire full time 24/7 help here for about the same or less. And who needs 24/7 care unless you don't ever sleep? And for that I get to live in my house - and not a 12' x 14' room. As long as my husband is alive to handle something like that for me - and vice versa - and either of us is alive to handle something like that for my 97 YO father - that's pretty much what we plan to do. Robyn
You may not have ever cared for someone who has REAL health issues, is immobile, or has significant dementia. It all sounds easy on paper...but especially if you have a job yourself, it's not easy getting up multiple times a night....uhmm - think about having a newborn but for YEARS with no respite.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Southport
4,639 posts, read 4,830,715 times
Reputation: 3422
Rather than become a welfare fraud, why don't you just buy long term care insurance.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:45 AM
 
72,071 posts, read 72,068,214 times
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because in their defense these tools were all put in place by the states to keep from impoverishing the seniors of the state because we haVE A BAD SYSTEM IN PLACE .

like our tax system which says your fair share of taxes is whatever you can figure out you legally have to pay this is no different .

their are many tools and methods left in place for those who want to utilize them .

if they did't want you to use them they could have changed the look backs to never . they already movrd them from 3 to 5 years .
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,972,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
You may not have ever cared for someone who has REAL health issues, is immobile, or has significant dementia. It all sounds easy on paper...but especially if you have a job yourself, it's not easy getting up multiple times a night....uhmm - think about having a newborn but for YEARS with no respite.
Agree totally. I have seen enough (old) sick people to know that some can be cared for at home - others can't. Depends on a variety of factors. Robyn
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,972,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Just to forewarn you, sometimes even after you have been private pay for the required minimum amount of time (in my area you usually have to show that you can pay for two full years to get into a good SNF) the nursing home that "promised" to keep you when Medicaid kicks in suddenly does not have any Medicaid beds available or you may have to be hospitalized for something and when you are released the facility that you came from is now "full" and you need to find a SNF that accepts Medicaid patients from the start or you are transferred to a Medicaid bed on a different wing in the same SNF. Or, if your level of care changes that section of the SNF is "full" so you can't stay anymore...
Even if you're paying full freight - you won't be guaranteed a room - and especially *your* room (important in the case of long term care - people furnish their rooms) if you return to your SNF after a hospital stay unless you continue to pay for the room while you're in the hospital. It's kind of like renting an apartment. You can't stop paying the rent if you need to be hospitalized. Robyn

Last edited by Robyn55; 01-28-2016 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,972,970 times
Reputation: 6723
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut View Post
Your banker needs to stop practicing law...
Bankers shouldn't practice law. Brokers shouldn't practice law. And people here shouldn't try to practice law either. Even though I'm a lawyer and know a little about this stuff - I can't give specific legal advice to specific people because I know zero about the laws that exist in states other than Florida - and good legal advice will depend a lot on someone's specific financial circumstances.

I suggest that anyone who is interested in so-called "Medicaid planning" should do 2 things. First - find out what the story is when it comes to good SNFs and Medicaid beds in your area. Find out what the story is where your kids live too (if you get really old/really sick - you may wind up having to move where they live so they can help with your care). In my case - the best SNF here has a lengthy waiting list for Medicaid beds. And the only people who can even get on the waiting list for those beds are those who have lived in this area for at least 3 years. The better SNFs I have seen (not religious non-profits like the best one) don't have any Medicaid beds at all. We would have been up sh** creek when we had to move my late FIL from NC to a SNF here had he done "Medicaid planning".

The mileage of particular people in particular places may vary (I've had 2 people in my family on Medicaid - an aunt in New Jersey and my SIL's father in south Florida - the places they were in weren't awful - but they were certainly sub-optimal).

Second - if you still find the idea of Medicaid planning - which is basically impoverishing yourself and trusting someone else with your money so you can get a "free ride" with Medicaid - talk with a local lawyer - or preferably two. One who does Medicaid planning - and one who doesn't. I know an increasing number of estate planning lawyers in the second category. Because they have seen too many horror stories - especially when it comes to the beneficiaries of irrevocable (not irrevokable) trusts not using the money in a way the donor intended ("oh - I gave my kids the money because I thought they would help me out"). And they don't want to have angry clients/get involved in malpractice suits.

FWIW - when you're on Medicaid and in a SNF - it seems like you have to fill out all kinds of forms to show your continuing eligibility for Medicaid. It's not like your kids - or whoever has your money if you set up a Medicaid trust - can give you a bunch of money that you've given to them "under the table" to make your life easier. My SIL - whose father was on Medicaid and who honestly was poor as a church mouse (he didn't have anything to give away) - complained all the time about the reams of paperwork she had to file to maintain her father's Medicaid eligibility (she might have exaggerated - I don't know).

Note that there are many flavors of trusts that are used for various purposes. There are some you can set up when you're alive. And others you can set up in a will that will come into existence after you die. They have various tax consequences too. If I were seriously interested in any kind of trust (I'm not) - even though I'm a lawyer - I would consult not only with my estate planning lawyer - but my accountant as well. Even though I took a year long course in Estates and Trusts in law school - and read about this stuff now - no way this would be a DIY project for me. Note that I have never and would never use a lawyer or accountant who sold "products" in addition to giving professional advice/preparing documents (too many potential conflicts of interest IMO). Robyn
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:06 PM
 
2,952 posts, read 1,649,546 times
Reputation: 5292
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinadawg2 View Post
Rather than become a welfare fraud, why don't you just buy long term care insurance.
I agree. Why anyone wants to go on medicaid is beyond me?! Are your heirs in a bad way, that as an older person you still need to provide for them?

What you do now to create a trust to go on medicaid could be over ruled and the laws change. Frankly any attorney who pimps himself out as a creator of a vehicle to commit medicare fraud, I would refuse to do business with. Its like those attorneys who say by law we don't need to pay taxes. These guys and their clients end up in prison.

I'd be reporting his firm to medicare and see if there is a reward for me! How do you find these guys Google Medicare fraud attorneys?

There is a whole life policy that you can buy a rider for LTC. So your loved ones will collect the whole life if you don't use the LTC. I have one.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:14 AM
 
72,071 posts, read 72,068,214 times
Reputation: 49621
the problem with the whole life and ltc rider is two fold .

they have no inflation protection . homes in our area are 120-135k a year . what will those homes cost in 20-30 years in your area or better yet in the area your family lives in case you want to be near them in a home ?

so part two of the problem is in order to get enough in coverage to actually have enough to cover a few years off in the future i would need to plunk down a few hundred thousand dollars in to a linked benefit plan at very little return .

to tie up a sum like that is crazy when odds are i can invest it normally and just a fraction of the return can pay for a real inflation protected ltc policy with all the popular options . that would only be my option if i couldn't get a regular ltc policy . it would never be a first choice . in the long run the linked whole life plans can be the most costliest way .


the linked benefit /whole life policy's run very high odds of not having enough money to mean squat decades out so what do you do once the money is spent ?

Last edited by mathjak107; 01-29-2016 at 03:39 AM..
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