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Old 12-26-2015, 02:45 PM
Location: Near a river
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Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post

I do not know if a trust can be used to hide assets from medicaid. I very much doubt that it does, and I hope not.
The estate attorneys use the word "protect" and the subject between atty and client is "Medicaid Planning." As mathjak and others said, the options under Irrevocable Trusts are the only tools for "protection" of assets.
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Old 12-26-2015, 02:51 PM
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nothing is hidden at all . these are all tools and methods put in place to be utilized .

no different than our tax system which left your fair share of taxes up to you to figure out . whatever legal tools and deductions you can use to reduce them is your fair share .

long term care planning is no different . all these legal methods could be done away with just with the stroke of a pen , but the states and federal gov't do not want to do that .
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
here are the details

Annuities and Medicaid Planning | ElderLawAnswers.

these are usually not the best way to plan . there are quite a few reasons for not doing it as well as much better options.

Read This Before You Buy an Annuity
I went through this with my brother in law. I spent a year researching the options and working with an attorney. We did not have the time to utilize the 5 year look back. And you must be extremely careful that the annuity meets all of medicare's rules or it will not be considered an excluded asset. This was in the state of AZ.
He died before we purchased the annuity.
If you know of a better way to exclude assets with less than 5 years, please enlighten me.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:00 PM
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It is highly state specific as far as options. there is a way of manipulating loans to protect at least 1/2.

There is right of refusal and negotiations but i only know what i have been exposed to . I would think a good attorney would have more
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:06 PM
Location: Portland, Oregon
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The OP really needs to talk to an attorney that specializes in elder law (a specialty with certification in most states). That attorney can prepare trusts as appropriate, a will, health care directives as appropriate in your state.

Now I recommend you visit skilled nursing homes (medicare has an online list with inspection results), assisted living facilities, continuing care communities (make sure that are accredited), even adult foster care homes (your county would have a list of licenced facilities. Pretend that you are considering their residence for a relative. Ask about services and costs. Some continuing care communities care for their residents after they have exhausted their resources IF the resident has been prudent in their asset management, was healthy when moving in.

I know you don't need any of those services right now but let me share a story: my father had surgery and was expected to be discharged to home. That didn't happen, he was sent to a nursing home. That possibility had not been discussed with him or the family. We were stuck with the recommendation of the hospital social worker and no one was invested emotionally in that result. You (and your family in your behalf) need to know what places to avoid and places that are OK. Then you need to re-visit those periodically to assure they haven't changed. What you will see is sad and many of the residents poorly dressed but don't be misled by fancy surroundings as the facility may be spending more on the 'show' and shortchanging staffing.

A classmate of mine, a physician whose father was a physician, choose an adult foster care setting for his parents at the end of life. He, and they, were impressed by the care provided.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:15 PM
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If I were married, I would purchase long term care insurance. Our current eldercare system is pathetic. When the baby boomers start to need nursing home care, the government will have a huge cost to cover people who can't afford the nursing home fees.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:17 PM
Location: Southwest Washington State
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Originally Posted by rjm1cc View Post
I would skip this and pay my own bills. No interest in helping you pay yours.
Having said that I would be very carefull. My guess is you will be placing all your assets in a non revocable trust and will have no ownership rights to the assets. A trustee will have to be named and the trustee will manage the assets per the terms of the trust. I do not know if you can be the trustee. I would think not. How much will the trustee charge? Be sure to have a method of changing trustees if you do not think they are doing a good job. Income in the trust will be subject to state and federal taxes separate from your return.

If you think you will go through with this I would get a second opinion from another attorney.
Our trust is revocable. A trust does not have to be irrevocable. I don't know how putting assets in a trust can protect from Medicaid though. You don't get Medicaid unless you have no assets, except for perhaps a house. But every state is different.

We put our assets in a trust because we wanted to spare our heirs difficulties, and we didn't want a probated will which is on public record.

You will need to have a detailed record of all your assets for the attorney to give you an accurate picture. And it is true that attorneys can help elders get into care, and they should know the laws in their states. If you don't have an up to date will, I think a visit to an attorney is a good thing. I understand that a trust can allow the assets to pass to heirs without going through a legal procedure. So, there are good reasons to set up a trust. If the cost seems too steep, see a couple of other attorneys. We paid quite a bit in WA state--much more than in MO. But the MO POA was not done correctly, we found out. So, I guess the upshot is, get a good attorney, and be prepared for the cost.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:19 PM
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A medicaid trust has to be irrevokable and yes the assets are protected.

A revokable trust has nothing to do with the subject that is being discussed.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:19 PM
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Eight years ago we placed our home in an revocable trust. Our children are the trustees. We had an attorney who specialized in seniors. At the same time we had our Wills, POA, living wills, etc. updated. It cost us about $1000 for both of us for the entire package.

We did this so that should if we had to go in a nursing home the house would not be available for them to sell should our other assets be depleted.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:43 PM
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you may have a surprise waiting for you in regards to qualifying for medicaid should you deplete assets .

a house is a protected asset as long as you claim you will one day go back to it . even a certain amount of equity does not count towards the asset total you can keep when a spouse needs care .

so while medicaid can't take it while you are alive that changes when you die . anything that goes through probate is fair game to medicaid for recovery of expenses .

so a popular ploy is putting the house in a revocable living trust which keeps the house from going through probate and assets that don't go through probate can't generally be taken by medicaid . the catch 22 is the house in a revocable trust is a counted asset and as such can disqualify you from having medicaid eventually pick up the tab after you deplete assets .

the house loses its protected status under medicaid rules when in a revocable trust . that means all dollars count in the tabulation .

a Home Protection Trust is very different than the standard revocable “living trust” that many people have already set up. A revocable living trust does not protect your assets from nursing home costs. it only keeps the house from being taken but in no way does it help you qualify for medicaid in the first place . The Home Protection Trust is an irrevocable trust specifically designed to protect its holdings from loss if you ever have to apply for Medicaid to pay for your long term care costs. the value of the house does not count in the tabulation with the irrevocable home protection trust

Revocable Trusts and Medicaid: That’s a good thing, right? | The Elder Law Blog

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-26-2015 at 06:43 PM..
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