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Old 04-01-2008, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,819,531 times
Reputation: 18992

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Another often overlooked fact is that today's homes are nothing like the homes of yesteryear... For generations, the standard was a 900 square foot home with 2 Bedrooms and 1 Bath and a little yard in back for a garden...
Great post--and I especially liked this comment at the end.
My parents bought a house, but it was still tiny by today's standards. About 1000 sf. There was no "two story foyer" or "sitting room off the master bedroom suite".

But they raised four kids there and it seemed comfortable to me. Probably because it was like all the other homes in the neighborhood. And because it was bigger than Grandma's place. My grandparents raised 5 kids in a 3 bedroom apartment. I remember visiting them, and it was a tiny place. A couch reached the entire lenth of the living room wall.
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Old 04-01-2008, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
857 posts, read 4,471,918 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
Al,

Many of the neighborhoods that were considered middle class back in those days would be considered poor today. People's expectations about what they need, or think they need, has risen dramatically. Many years ago, a 2-3 bedroom home with one bath was considered normal. Families may have had only one car and public schools were better. If people in today's society were willing to reduce their expectations to those post-war standards, I'm sure a lot more people would have no trouble buying, and keeping, a home.
You are so right about that. I grew up in a house that was only about 1400 sf and had only one bathroom. There were eight of us in my family. No yard, you played out in the street, and we didn't even own a car until after the 6th baby was born.
These days my husband and I live in a 3,300 sf house on an acre and I sometimes find myself looking at larger houses (even though I would like to scale down), and I have no idea why I or people like me think we need so much room. I mean. it is my money to spend however i want... but I don't know why I want to spend it on more house than I need.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:17 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,901,398 times
Reputation: 18049
But we are not talking about individuall caes here. It is the overall.As pointed out many in manufacturing had it good for years as far as security and pay was concerned but for whatever reason they didn't see or believe that the economy would change.I don't think they are lazy ;but they just didn't want to believe the jobs would continue to evaporate. I can remember the panic over the jobs being taken by robots years ago. Now it is the world economy.Just like the news that in major cities as many as 50%+don't graduate from high school.Now tell me how they think they are going to make a living with that poor a education.I don't think we educate our kids that life is still about survival ; even if it has changed.That just maybe the reason that the rich get richer and the poorer are getting poorer.They just don't want to struggle and think they will be discovered some how.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,819,531 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I don't think we educate our kids that life is still about survival ; even if it has changed.That just maybe the reason that the rich get richer and the poorer are getting poorer.They just don't want to struggle and think they will be discovered some how.
Three very wise sentences, indeed.
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:08 PM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
Reputation: 11681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
Al,

Many of the neighborhoods that were considered middle class back in those days would be considered poor today. People's expectations about what they need, or think they need, has risen dramatically. Many years ago, a 2-3 bedroom home with one bath was considered normal. Families may have had only one car and public schools were better. If people in today's society were willing to reduce their expectations to those post-war standards, I'm sure a lot more people would have no trouble buying, and keeping, a home.
sixty years ago our country was not as diverse as today. Segregation both by law and practice kept groups isolated from living together. Today we use housing cost to segregate. That takes and makes the ability to afford an exclusive neighborhood as the modern method of selecting who your neighbors are.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,361,282 times
Reputation: 24613
Kids are dropping out of schools because they realize that a longer education will not mean a damn thing to their income. They also realize they can make, at a much greater risk, a lot more money in the illegal drug trade than cleaning toilets. Bootlegging has always bee a way out of poverty for a lot of folks.

Our society has become way more divided by income and this is not an accident. Somewhere round the mid 60’s the prosperous noticed that working class folks were showing up at the previously exclusive resorts and decided that exclusivity was worth protecting. The result is all the things we have experienced since then like deindustrialization, regressive income taxes, poor public education, endless war and war profiteering and very economically selective higher education.

I expect we will have to have a really catastrophic economic collapse before we can reinstitute the economic measures of Franklin Roosevelt’s era. I expect this depression has started and the drastic collapse will happen after this falls elections.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:48 AM
 
Location: lumberton, texas
652 posts, read 2,457,751 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by condorito View Post
Having a car loan is the most IDIOTIC financial move in my opinion. My 10 year old truck stopped running this last week at 150000 miles. I ended up finding a semi new engine for $500 and had it put in for a total cost of $1700. I am confident I can get another 10 years out of my truck. My insurance is currently $40. I do not understand why would anybody pay $250 for a car loan + $200/month for full coverage insurance. Just the money wasted on full coverage insurance over a 5 year loan is $15000 + the depreciation of a $20000 car over 5 years, that is like throwing away $5000/year or $25000 over a 5 year period. Dumb!
I am in total agreement (for the most part) I know couples that spend a total of $900-$2000 a month for their cars and insurance!!!!!! One person in particular bought a 90k mercedes and a top of the line Denali with no money down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no idea how much their insurance is but I do know they have several tickets and at least one accident. It is insane.
I decided I am going to "bite the bullet" and buy a brand new car. I still get buyers remorse (before buying it). haha anyway it is a 32k car and I will not get it until I have at least 27k in cash. I just reached over half way!!!!!!!
I'm not worried aabout the depreciation because I will keep it untill it totally dies (or sell it to one of my kids). I should be able to get 200-300k miles from it.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:39 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,083 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Kids are dropping out of schools because they realize that a longer education will not mean a damn thing to their income. They also realize they can make, at a much greater risk, a lot more money in the illegal drug trade than cleaning toilets. Bootlegging has always bee a way out of poverty for a lot of folks.

Our society has become way more divided by income and this is not an accident. Somewhere round the mid 60ís the prosperous noticed that working class folks were showing up at the previously exclusive resorts and decided that exclusivity was worth protecting. The result is all the things we have experienced since then like deindustrialization, regressive income taxes, poor public education, endless war and war profiteering and very economically selective higher education.

I expect we will have to have a really catastrophic economic collapse before we can reinstitute the economic measures of Franklin Rooseveltís era. I expect this depression has started and the drastic collapse will happen after this falls elections.
Yes, it is certainly planned by the elite. I totally agree. They shut themselves away, and have no concern for anyone who is just trying to make a living on wages alone. And, our government has been bought by the rich, including corporations. We the People have no say in anything that happens. Most laws favor the corporations who own our "representatives".

I guess if you're part of the elite, you don't want to let go of it, so nothing else matters except your own pocket.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 643,703 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Yes, it is certainly planned by the elite. I totally agree. They shut themselves away, and have no concern for anyone who is just trying to make a living on wages alone. And, our government has been bought by the rich, including corporations. I guess if you're part of the elite, you don't want to let go of it, so nothing else matters except your own pocket.
Sal, I have to wonder; how many truly rich people do you know? I attended a lunch meeting yesterday where the guest speaker is a well known Chairman of a very, very large real estate development firm. He talked about our need for better schools, more affordable housing, better healthcare, more mentoring for our inner-city kids, and on and on. And you know what? He wasn't just talking about it - he puts his personal and corporate money where his mouth is. He sits on the board of the largest public hospital here - a hospital that was totally mismanaged by government types, works with HeadStart, a national program that promotes school readiness, and more. At a local mall, where over 37,000 people are employed in the general area in low-paying retail and service jobs, and have to drive an average of 25 minutes to get to work, he wanted to buy land and develop housing that would be within walking distance to the mall and sell for the very low $100k range, easily within grasp of many of the local workers. You know what? The local government turned him down becasue they thought it would lead to more traffic. It took over a year for him to show that it would, in fact, lead to less traffic and he just recently got approval to start the project.

Assuming that the elite, the rich, or whatever you want to call them are evil is as ignorant as assuming blacks, or any other racial group, are not good people just because they are different than you.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,361,282 times
Reputation: 24613
BB - I know a number of really wealthy folks. Some are generous with their time some are not. Just like everyone else. All are very careful with their money.

I was talking about the isolated 'thinkers' in their privately funded institutes developing nationwide and international policies. Most of the neoconservative domestic and foreign economic policies are very effective at concentrating and securing wealth but woefully ineffective at creating wealth or economic development.

I suggest reading “Bad Samaritans” by Ha-Joon Chang of the Cambridge School of Economics in England. This book explains how the international, and by derivation the domestic, economic policies actually work to suppress economic growth. I borrowed this book from the Londonderry Public Library.
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