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Old 04-04-2008, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 644,173 times
Reputation: 279

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post

I suggest reading “Bad Samaritans” by Ha-Joon Chang of the Cambridge School of Economics in England. This book explains how the international, and by derivation the domestic, economic policies actually work to suppress economic growth. I borrowed this book from the Londonderry Public Library.
I appreciate the recommendation, but if I am going to read anything it will be about how to grow and keep what I have, not a tome on how we can blame others for conspiring to limit our ability to succeed.
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:42 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,738,716 times
Reputation: 46028
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Yes, it is certainly planned by the elite. I totally agree. They shut themselves away, and have no concern for anyone who is just trying to make a living on wages alone. And, our government has been bought by the rich, including corporations. We the People have no say in anything that happens. Most laws favor the corporations who own our "representatives".

I guess if you're part of the elite, you don't want to let go of it, so nothing else matters except your own pocket.
I'm sorry. But do you have the vaguest idea of what you're talking about, or do you just like to deal in stereotypes?

For some reason I cannot fathom, you think people who have amassed wealth live like plutocrats, lighting cigars with hundred-dollar bills. Yet, if you read a book such as the Millionaire Next Door (suggested by an earlier poster on this forum), you would know that the opposite is the case. Almost all people who have wealth today gained it through hard work, prudent money management, and the occasional willingness to take calculated risks. They are certainly not spending their days honing their putts out on the golf course.

These same people work extremely hard--typically 12-14 hours a day. They are heavily leveraged in their own businesses and investments. What's more, these are the same people who provide the capital that enables charities to function. Oh, and their tax burden is disproportionate to their income, especially as a percentage of the GNP.

And, as far as the laws that favor corporations, you again have no idea what you're discussing. Ask any employer who pays matching taxes for Security, provides a 401K, pays health insurance, provides a quality working environment, AND makes a profit--which then typically gets plowed right back into the business to ensure future growth and viability. Even then, the government takes 33% of your net profit come tax time.

What's more, this is a benign business environment compared to the punitive taxation levels favored by Keynsian economists. It's no coincidence that when taxation levels are high on businesses and individuals, economic growth slows dramatically.

So yeah, people who are wealthy deserve to be that way. Because, chances are they earned every dime.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,684 posts, read 49,455,573 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm sorry. But do you have the vaguest idea of what you're talking about, or do you just like to deal in stereotypes?

For some reason I cannot fathom, you think people who have amassed wealth live like plutocrats, lighting cigars with hundred-dollar bills. Yet, if you read a book such as the Millionaire Next Door (suggested by an earlier poster on this forum), you would know that the opposite is the case. Almost all people who have wealth today gained it through hard work, prudent money management, and the occasional willingness to take calculated risks. They are certainly not spending their days honing their putts out on the golf course.
Also [forgive me as I do not recall the exact number here] is it like like than 8% of American Millionaires are first generation? Meaning that they have not inherited a single penny. They are the first in their ancestry to have accumulated wealth.



Quote:
...These same people work extremely hard--typically 12-14 hours a day. They are heavily leveraged in their own businesses and investments. What's more, these are the same people who provide the capital that enables charities to function. Oh, and their tax burden is disproportionate to their income, especially as a percentage of the GNP.
A very high percentage wear bib-overalls and work boots splattered with cow manure, or blue-collar shirts with 'Fred' written above the pocket.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:48 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,773 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm sorry. But do you have the vaguest idea of what you're talking about, or do you just like to deal in stereotypes?

For some reason I cannot fathom, you think people who have amassed wealth live like plutocrats, lighting cigars with hundred-dollar bills. Yet, if you read a book such as the Millionaire Next Door (suggested by an earlier poster on this forum), you would know that the opposite is the case. Almost all people who have wealth today gained it through hard work, prudent money management, and the occasional willingness to take calculated risks. They are certainly not spending their days honing their putts out on the golf course.

These same people work extremely hard--typically 12-14 hours a day. They are heavily leveraged in their own businesses and investments. What's more, these are the same people who provide the capital that enables charities to function. Oh, and their tax burden is disproportionate to their income, especially as a percentage of the GNP.

And, as far as the laws that favor corporations, you again have no idea what you're discussing. Ask any employer who pays matching taxes for Security, provides a 401K, pays health insurance, provides a quality working environment, AND makes a profit--which then typically gets plowed right back into the business to ensure future growth and viability. Even then, the government takes 33% of your net profit come tax time.

What's more, this is a benign business environment compared to the punitive taxation levels favored by Keynsian economists. It's no coincidence that when taxation levels are high on businesses and individuals, economic growth slows dramatically.

So yeah, people who are wealthy deserve to be that way. Because, chances are they earned every dime.
I didn't say anything about how they made their money - I'm only saying, as we all know, "money talks". That's why our government "representatives" (who don't represent the general population, who are mostly middle-class or lower-class) are owned by people who have the money. I don't care how they made their money, but our government should not be serving them exclusively, but rather should be serving ALL of our citizens.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,515,954 times
Reputation: 27566
Most of the gov't elected have Big Corp $$$ backing them. Individuals who made money via hard work won't be able to exert much influence in government.
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:43 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,943,432 times
Reputation: 18050
Well ;if you look I haven't seen any governmant offical running for anything thsat is not a millionaire several times over.None of the presidental candidates is near middle class evn. Even if they were when growinbg up it's hard for them to relate.Frankly if you look at the federal budget and compare it to 50 years ago;there is a majority of the money going to the lower income levels.But with that seems to be growing a large portion of the populace that no longer realises that survival is a struggle. Look at the education opportunities avilable to younger people that they fluff off so easily.Look at the dropout rate in scols because they don't like it. They seem to have no motivation now days and by the time they realise thier mistake they are in their late 30's and far behind. Its reallym a shame to see immigrants like Vietnamese whos parents do not even speak english that their children realise the opportunity availablele and grasp it.I sometimes think this is why the spread of the haves and have not is getting wider;the ones that take things by the horns so to speak and those that wait hoping they will be discovered some how. Then they tend to whine about their situation in life and take up government resourses that could be spent on the handicapped and others that need it.I'm all for helping those that need a hand but those that are just plane lazy we hurt more than help IMO.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,052,621 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Well ;if you look I haven't seen any governmant offical running for anything thsat is not a millionaire several times over.None of the presidental candidates is near middle class evn. Even if they were when growinbg up it's hard for them to relate.Frankly if you look at the federal budget and compare it to 50 years ago;there is a majority of the money going to the lower income levels.But with that seems to be growing a large portion of the populace that no longer realises that survival is a struggle. Look at the education opportunities avilable to younger people that they fluff off so easily.Look at the dropout rate in scols because they don't like it. They seem to have no motivation now days and by the time they realise thier mistake they are in their late 30's and far behind. Its reallym a shame to see immigrants like Vietnamese whos parents do not even speak english that their children realise the opportunity availablele and grasp it.I sometimes think this is why the spread of the haves and have not is getting wider;the ones that take things by the horns so to speak and those that wait hoping they will be discovered some how. Then they tend to whine about their situation in life and take up government resourses that could be spent on the handicapped and others that need it.I'm all for helping those that need a hand but those that are just plane lazy we hurt more than help IMO.
Good points. Also, politicians get a lot of stuff done for them for free that you and I would have to pay for, so even if their reported income is not huge, they live much higher on the hog than it seems.

I hear ya about the lack of motivation of today's young people. I call it the entitlement generation - very similar to the aristocracy of Britain's 1920's and look what happened to them. But, I know two families in my immediate neighborhood who managed to raise really good, honest, hardworking, sensible kids. So, maybe those kids will save us all. At least they aren't ALL worthless slackers.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:11 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,140,430 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
I know two families in my immediate neighborhood who managed to raise really good, honest, hardworking, sensible kids. So, maybe those kids will save us all. At least they aren't ALL worthless slackers.
Can we get them to run for office?
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
857 posts, read 4,473,516 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
I didn't say anything about how they made their money - I'm only saying, as we all know, "money talks". That's why our government "representatives" (who don't represent the general population, who are mostly middle-class or lower-class) are owned by people who have the money. I don't care how they made their money, but our government should not be serving them exclusively, but rather should be serving ALL of our citizens.
The top 10% of income earners in the US pay 66% of the taxes collected.
The bottom 50% of income earners pay only 14% of the taxes.
I bet that the people that you are complaining about are probably wishing that you were actually correct and that they were being favored by their representatives!
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:44 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,052,621 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthmeetsSouth View Post
The top 10% of income earners in the US pay 66% of the taxes collected.
The bottom 50% of income earners pay only 14% of the taxes.
I bet that the people that you are complaining about are probably wishing that you were actually correct and that they were being favored by their representatives!
Ah yes, statistics. A great way to lie and misrepresent the facts.

But what percentage of the nation's income and wealth do those top 10% have? A huge percentage. I don't have the figures at hand, but it is increasingly lopsided, so don't go crying crocodile tears about how burdened they are.

Warren Buffett (2nd wealthiest person?) did a little study and found that he pays less than half in taxes as a percentage of his income than any of his staff. He claims he does nothing in particular to reduce his tax bite but that the tax law greatly favors the super rich over the middle classes. He says this is a disgrace.

Raw money paid in taxes is a red herring when the actual money earned isn't taken into account.
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