U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-14-2016, 07:29 AM
 
13,923 posts, read 7,416,674 times
Reputation: 25432

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73 View Post
Tuborg - respectfully, this line of argument sounds a tad strident. It is the libertarian screed, shrieked by every member of the cohort receiving a defined benefit pension plan, to support a premise of innate superiority.
Err... the typical libertarian is violently against public sector and union defined benefit pensions that nobody else receives. The rugged individualist libertarian is supposed to create their own wealth to retire comfortably.

I used to have that politics. I've shifted towards more of an elitist left coast/right coast liberal position where I think most people are too stupid to save for their retirement and have to be protected from themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-14-2016, 07:33 AM
 
210 posts, read 151,082 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Which is precisely why we should reduce our excessive housing regulations now.

Since we cannot magically raise the incomes of all these people, we must accommodate a reduction in spending and living standards.

"Accommodate".... As in cardboard walled lean-to's or tents and outhouses? (I think they are called shanty towns.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,592 posts, read 17,589,896 times
Reputation: 27682
Quote:
Originally Posted by josie13 View Post
I've also known good people, married for 20+ years, with a focus on family and future, too. Folks who were financially focused and knew what retirement would cost for them and how to get there. Married people with children who spent Sunday afternoon doing family time and activities with other families...

...until the day that their spouse announced that he/she wanted a divorce and walked out. In the aftermath of unilateral divorce, the whole financial ballgame changes, and "behind the eight ball" isn't the half of it.

Just today, a coworker confided in me that her husband of 25 years had made his divorce pronouncement and walked out. It can and does happen to anyone. Just like any other piece of bad luck that blows one's careful financial plans to smithereens.

If you are lucky enough not to have been forced through the crucible of divorce, maybe show a little humility. Everyone thinks that it won't happen to them. But it happens to 40-50% of married people.
Divorce can be devastating, but people can and do recover from it. I feel sorry for the spouses (usually women) who never acquired much in the way of job skills and then get left in the cold. A high earning uncle (half a million a year give or take most years) divorced his wife. While he's paying her $4k/month for ten years or so, she'll only be fifty or so when the payments end and she hasn't worked since her early 20s. She's likely to have problems unless she remarries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Central NY
4,676 posts, read 3,248,729 times
Reputation: 11982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Divorce can be devastating, but people can and do recover from it. I feel sorry for the spouses (usually women) who never acquired much in the way of job skills and then get left in the cold. A high earning uncle (half a million a year give or take most years) divorced his wife. While he's paying her $4k/month for ten years or so, she'll only be fifty or so when the payments end and she hasn't worked since her early 20s. She's likely to have problems unless she remarries.
Not every wife whose husband leaves for "greener pastures" receives a monthly check from the ex.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,604 posts, read 1,314,873 times
Reputation: 4178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Divorce can be devastating, but people can and do recover from it. I feel sorry for the spouses (usually women) who never acquired much in the way of job skills and then get left in the cold. A high earning uncle (half a million a year give or take most years) divorced his wife. While he's paying her $4k/month for ten years or so, she'll only be fifty or so when the payments end and she hasn't worked since her early 20s. She's likely to have problems unless she remarries.
She is only in her 40's now. With 48K a year there is no reason she could not get training for a job and work until full retirement age. Being a woman is not a handicap. Now if she was already in her late 50' s it would be a huge problem. It is about rational choices. she can claim half of his social security at full retirement age and should be able to save a bit before then "if " she makes the right choices.

But I personally think he is a pig if he didn't leave her with some other property and security since he was such a high earner. And he was the one splitting.

Last edited by funisart; 01-14-2016 at 08:43 AM.. Reason: Add
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:45 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 2,204,023 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Divorce can be devastating, but people can and do recover from it. I feel sorry for the spouses (usually women) who never acquired much in the way of job skills and then get left in the cold. A high earning uncle (half a million a year give or take most years) divorced his wife. While he's paying her $4k/month for ten years or so, she'll only be fifty or so when the payments end and she hasn't worked since her early 20s. She's likely to have problems unless she remarries.
I don't feel sorry for her. At 4K/month for 10 years, she has the opportunity to go back to school for job training, get herself set up in an inexpensive condo, and prepare herself for the day when she is on her own. That's what I did with much less than 4K/month and with young kids and still had to work to make ends meet with support payments. My job training was at night after work. I was 49 when all support ended and also hadn't work for many years when married.

Last edited by smpliving; 01-14-2016 at 09:05 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,237 posts, read 6,340,776 times
Reputation: 9854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Divorce can be devastating, but people can and do recover from it. I feel sorry for the spouses (usually women) who never acquired much in the way of job skills and then get left in the cold. A high earning uncle (half a million a year give or take most years) divorced his wife. While he's paying her $4k/month for ten years or so, she'll only be fifty or so when the payments end and she hasn't worked since her early 20s. She's likely to have problems unless she remarries.
And what about people who never got married, they never got any benefit from any marriage either, shared housing, shared expense, shared benefits like health insurance, etc.. I have relatives in this category. Even to buy a house they have to rely on their own savings, same with retirement. They have to do it alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 08:51 AM
 
7,936 posts, read 5,045,305 times
Reputation: 13596
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
...Recommending what works is not the same as disparaging what didn't. However marriage/divorce along with two income couples are part of the retirement discussion at least in my reality. So I will share mine and you yours or we shall ignore others realities as we discuss. The affirmation of what has worked for folks is not a put down of those who it either didn't work for or didn't put it in place. In summary one of the strongest paths to retirement is a two income couple each with their own complete package of retirement benefits and assets. If achievable great if not there are other ways that can be used instead. Many young folks are evidently incorporating this into their life planning.
I agree. Doubtless some strategies are more successful than others. Wanton indifference to our future, catering to instant gratification, the taking of dumb risks and the thoughtless succumbing to fads, are all likely to reduce our prospects of long-term success, if not ruin them outright. Nevertheless, it's also possible to do everything right, and to still fail. It's possible to act justly, but to receive injustice. Life happens. I think that some of the frustration and animosity in this thread, and in such discussions in general, is not from a perception that we're all helpless and that no good strategies exist, or that all successful people are thieves, but rather, that we all owe SOME portion of our success to luck, and that we must humbly acknowledge the helpful ingredients beyond our ken or construct.

Once again I point out the difference in stock-market performance between the 1930s/40s vs. the 50s/60s vs. the 1970s, and again vs. the 80s/90s and the past two decades. The same behaviors, the same sedulous habits of self-restraint and life-planning, would have yielded very different investor results. This doesn't excuse the forswearing of savings and sybaritic enjoyment of a fleeting present, discounting the future. But it does mean that of two kids running two identical lemonade-stands, one could profit handsomely, while the other could go bankrupt.

One a somewhat different topic, it amazes me how much overlap there is between social-skills and investment skills. By social skills I mean the capacity to find, attract and retain the sort of spouse who would share one's dedication to financial responsibility, and who could be relied upon to remain in the marriage. No amount of personal good financial habits, or investment-success, can protect us from the bad judgment of an intimate. Neither does possession of such good habits mean that we'd have the wherewithal to find (and retain) such a spouse. A young-person who does find a good job, who does save money and invest it – but who can't find a spouse with similar commitment – will either have to go through life alone, or jeopardize his/her financial prospects by "settling" for somebody with different values.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,592 posts, read 17,589,896 times
Reputation: 27682
Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart View Post
She is only in her 40's now. With 48K a year there is no reason she could not get training for a job and work until full retirement age. Being a woman is not a handicap. Now if she was already in her late 50' s it would be a huge problem. It is about rational choices. she can claim half of his social security at full retirement age and should be able to save a bit before then "if " she makes the right choices.

But I personally think he is a pig if he didn't leave her with some other property and security since he was such a high earner. And he was the one splitting.
He's ended up buying her a very nice condo and they bought a new luxury SUV right before they divorced. The alimony payments are on top of that.

She can get back in the labor force in a meaningful way, but it's going to be a huge adjustment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:28 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11705
You would think that for how often I say we are blessed people would get a clue as to who I am attributing much of our good fortune to. Truth be told things could be a lot worse for us if not bad but we were blessed and know who to be thankful to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top