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Old 01-13-2016, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
thats the tough part the waiting list and being able to anticipate when you will need.
Vicar's Landing has a long waiting list in part because people put their names on it "just in case". If they get to the head of the line - and they're not ready - they put their names back on the bottom of the waiting list again. When my father was contemplating a move here - the place we were looking at also had a long waiting list. But - when a unit opened up - no one on the waiting list was ready (a fair number had to sell their houses first). So he got the unit (basically within 2 weeks of when we started looking). Robyn
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:47 AM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Vicar's Landing has a long waiting list in part because people put their names on it "just in case". If they get to the head of the line - and they're not ready - they put their names back on the bottom of the waiting list again. When my father was contemplating a move here - the place we were looking at also had a long waiting list. But - when a unit opened up - no one on the waiting list was ready (a fair number had to sell their houses first). So he got the unit (basically within 2 weeks of when we started looking). Robyn
The place and model we visited and are looking at for perhaps down the road has a priority partner list which you can go on for $1,000 which is similar. They opened in November with about half of their apartments rented and moved in. Not sure how flat sales are going. They are luxurious and expensive but very nice and everything comes with lots of amenities and all of the bells and whistles of daily monitoring, valet, concierge, weekly linen etc along with 3 food venues. On the other side of the parking lot are a host of new medical facilities including a quality hospital satellite center. It is all in a newly developing high end planned residential communities with lakes, ponds, paths and shopping. Close to the beach and major shopping etc etc. Oh yeah and with scheduled transportation service. So it it works out it could be a great new model.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:04 AM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
It goes into what a CCRC is, how the financial situation of the 65+ set has changed, and more, in addition to the rate setting and disclosure information (that I haven't yet gotten to...I'm still in the introductory phase). It also offers up a case analysis of one CCRC in Florida, that was mentioned elsewhere in this forum (and is what I googled and thus found this article): Vicar's Landing in Florida.

http://digitalcommons.unf.edu/cgi/vi...xt=bacc_facpub

I'm posting it mostly just to share (not sure I can offer much more about the topic) and for the purely selfish reason of seeing if anyone here has any thoughts on it.
I fully understand the stage of planning you are in and we are comparable. Trying to get a handle on cost and price isn't easy especially since it is a moving target. My sense of at this point and I have been doing a bit of following and research for some time is that the traditional model may/is evolving. Depending on area of the country and I am most familiar with those that target residents of the Mid Atlantic state up and affluent regional management has historically been built on converting your home equity into their entry fee. That has for most quality places been 300K up. That has shown flaws as the typical home equity when used is often over time not enough to sustain the CCRC and thus the financial issues. This is evolving into more of a pay as you go which can target the many pensioners in the Mid Atlantic plus who can use that pension to cover the monthly cost. Especially with two earner couples. In other words enabling folks to use their fixed income to provide for their coverage. The problem becomes will that income be enough as you move up the tier of services. Probably yes but then what happens when the spouses need different levels of services. We had good conversation with the sales manager who was very honest and above board about the risk for them and consumers in their model. The key thing was LTC insurance and the ability to manage increases and changes in circumstance. That could best be done by having the following in place from the beginning.

Sufficient monthly cash flow including more that enough to cover their fees and your other life interest
Sufficient Equity for either a cash residence purchase and to assist eventual life changes and perhaps most importantly.
Adequate Long Term Health Care insurance that will kick in provide for that very expensive component along with adequate home and community coverage which they have available on site for a fee.
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Old 01-15-2016, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Close to an earthquake
890 posts, read 682,253 times
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About a year ago I visited a former client who now resides in a CCRC facility in Scottsdale, AZ. It's a very nice one. Him and his wife paid a $300,000 non-refundable entry fee and then pay another $5,500 a month. In exchange, they get a very nice 1,700 square foot townhouse. Right now they are in independent living status but since one of them has Parkinson's Disease and the other showing early-signs of dementia and both in their early 80's not wanting to be a burden to their adult children, they're very happy with their choice. But it's early in the game and things can chance.

He explained to me what he liked about it is the ability to transition to higher care levels as the need arises with predictable monthly costs. This person was more of club person in his prime belonging to a country club so I can see how he was attracted to a CCRC.

Me, I've been more of a rebel and not a club person and at age 60 and in good health, have a hard time fantasizing and visualizing a day when I might be a card-carrying CCRC resident. Time will tell.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:41 AM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
About a year ago I visited a former client who now resides in a CCRC facility in Scottsdale, AZ. It's a very nice one. Him and his wife paid a $300,000 non-refundable entry fee and then pay another $5,500 a month. In exchange, they get a very nice 1,700 square foot townhouse. Right now they are in independent living status but since one of them has Parkinson's Disease and the other showing early-signs of dementia and both in their early 80's not wanting to be a burden to their adult children, they're very happy with their choice. But it's early in the game and things can chance.

He explained to me what he liked about it is the ability to transition to higher care levels as the need arises with predictable monthly costs. This person was more of club person in his prime belonging to a country club so I can see how he was attracted to a CCRC.

Me, I've been more of a rebel and not a club person and at age 60 and in good health, have a hard time fantasizing and visualizing a day when I might be a card-carrying CCRC resident. Time will tell.
A person with the entry fee and fixed income well in excess of the monthly fee can handle any fee increases and be set and securing barring financial stress on the facility which can be a real risk. Especially with a change of ownership to venture capitalist.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
About a year ago I visited a former client who now resides in a CCRC facility in Scottsdale, AZ. It's a very nice one. Him and his wife paid a $300,000 non-refundable entry fee and then pay another $5,500 a month. In exchange, they get a very nice 1,700 square foot townhouse. Right now they are in independent living status but since one of them has Parkinson's Disease and the other showing early-signs of dementia and both in their early 80's not wanting to be a burden to their adult children, they're very happy with their choice. But it's early in the game and things can chance.

He explained to me what he liked about it is the ability to transition to higher care levels as the need arises with predictable monthly costs. This person was more of club person in his prime belonging to a country club so I can see how he was attracted to a CCRC.

Me, I've been more of a rebel and not a club person and at age 60 and in good health, have a hard time fantasizing and visualizing a day when I might be a card-carrying CCRC resident. Time will tell.
There's a big difference between 60 and 80+. Also a big difference between something like dementia and something like Parkinson's disease. OTOH - I have seen people in the late stages of both - and one thing they have in common is both require extremely expert care in an excellent SNF. Which a particular CCRC may or may not have. Here's the link to getting Medicare SNF ratings:

https://www.medicare.gov/NursingHomeCompare/search.html

Robyn
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:29 AM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
There's a big difference between 60 and 80+. Also a big difference between something like dementia and something like Parkinson's disease. OTOH - I have seen people in the late stages of both - and one thing they have in common is both require extremely expert care in an excellent SNF. Which a particular CCRC may or may not have. Here's the link to getting Medicare SNF ratings:

https://www.medicare.gov/NursingHomeCompare/search.html

Robyn
Great link
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
Reputation: 6724
Florida also has something called the Governor's Gold Seal award for SNFs. Here's a list of award winners (I think it's current - not 100% sure):

Facility/Provider Locator | FloridaHealthFinder.gov

Robyn
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
Reputation: 6724
BTW - I was looking through one of those throwaway Senior Guides I picked up at the supermarket the other day. And noticed that a local CCRC is now offering rentals. Thought it was the new pricing model TuborgP had mentioned. It isn't. Seems that the CCRC went bankrupt. It has since emerged from bankruptcy - and is using rentals now to fill otherwise vacant units:

Florida CCRC Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, Owes $62 Million - Senior Housing News

These places can really be full of financial land mines. Robyn
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:48 AM
 
10,830 posts, read 8,107,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Florida CCRC Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, Owes $62 Million - Senior Housing News

These places can really be full of financial land mines. Robyn
Absolutely. I'm leery of the ability of even long-established CCRCs to guarantee refunds of entry fees. Many have a tiered structure that offers a discounted refund with a lower fee. Here's an example:
Quote:
There are three Refund Plans designed to accommodate individual preferences. The three plans include: 50%, 75%, and 100% refunds after move-out. The fee ranges depend upon the plan you choose.
50% $105,000 to $192.000
75%: $157,500 to $288,000
100% $210,000 to $384,000
Keep in mind that these fees have nothing to do with the level of housing or service you choose. So to me the only tier that makes sense is the lowest one: buy in at $105k and be prepared that neither you nor your estate will ever see any of that money again. Actually I'm more comfortable with a CCRC that says upfront the fee is nonrefundable.
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