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Old 01-17-2016, 04:39 PM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
BTW - I was looking through one of those throwaway Senior Guides I picked up at the supermarket the other day. And noticed that a local CCRC is now offering rentals. Thought it was the new pricing model TuborgP had mentioned. It isn't. Seems that the CCRC went bankrupt. It has since emerged from bankruptcy - and is using rentals now to fill otherwise vacant units:

Florida CCRC Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, Owes $62 Million - Senior Housing News

These places can really be full of financial land mines. Robyn
Food for thought and I haven't had time to work with on a broader scale. I used the link you provided and most of the Nursing Homes in Raleigh would not be on a scale I would seek to be in. However one was highly rated in all categories and was in a nice area and I said great let me look at their web site. Hmmm and double hmmmm. Was good and all you could want and it was part of a CCRC that was well rated. Made me wonder about the quality Nursing Homes in CCRC's and are some of the best ones in the best CCRC's? Not sure how easy it would be to get in this one if not coming from the CCRC and it made me think about the conversation I had with the folks at the new pay as you go CCRC we were looking at. Part of the appeal there is you are guaranteed admission into all of their facilities. It also helps keep down if not minimize Medicaid patients as you would have had to prepay to get in the program.
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:15 PM
 
10,830 posts, read 8,107,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Made me wonder about the quality Nursing Homes in CCRC's and are some of the best ones in the best CCRC's? .
I'm not sure you can count on that. However the SNFs within CCRCs are regulated and monitored the same as freestanding ones so you can check out their ratings and reports.
Here's something that many people don't realize: sometimes what looks like adverse ratings isn't. For example, a facility that has a higher-than-usual number of pressure sores might be one that has a more frail population. This seems to be the case at a CCRC I checked out. I thought maybe those were red flags which surprised me because many residents are affluent and prominent (several former state govt officials are there). I asked a friend who is a nurse in the area about it and she said the independent living apartments and service are so nice that residents tend to stay in them until they're entirely bedridden and helpless. Whereas in a freestanding SNF you're going to have a more ambulatory population.
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:02 PM
 
29,932 posts, read 34,988,163 times
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Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I'm not sure you can count on that. However the SNFs within CCRCs are regulated and monitored the same as freestanding ones so you can check out their ratings and reports.
Here's something that many people don't realize: sometimes what looks like adverse ratings isn't. For example, a facility that has a higher-than-usual number of pressure sores might be one that has a more frail population. This seems to be the case at a CCRC I checked out. I thought maybe those were red flags which surprised me because many residents are affluent and prominent (several former state govt officials are there). I asked a friend who is a nurse in the area about it and she said the independent living apartments and service are so nice that residents tend to stay in them until they're entirely bedridden and helpless. Whereas in a freestanding SNF you're going to have a more ambulatory population.
Yesss that would make a lot of sense as there are some real nice independent living facilities that can help you stay there longer if not to long.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:48 PM
 
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Great links. Very useful. Helpful comments too, from you all. I'm glad I'm thinking and asking about it way early. The whole bankruptcy thing did occur to me too. *poof*, and it's all gone....and at an age (and frailty) when you can't get it back. A rental seems a better idea. I'm leaning away from a ccrc.

But, ask me again tomorrow.
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Old 01-18-2016, 12:11 AM
 
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Robyn Sidebar: Oddly enough, my new health insurance company just sent me (with their standard paperwork) all the legal health papers you mentioned, and I pulled the durable power of attorney off the internet. And my bank has a free notary (for customers). So I'll have myself set up for all that by the end of the week, and will give copies to my kid. (Told him I was making a "death file"). All for free. (I love free). It'll "do" for the temporariness of my residency.

So no more shame on me! :P

(Watching Downton again tonight reminded me to come back here to rectify my reputation!)

End of sidebar
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:35 AM
 
10,830 posts, read 8,107,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
Great links. Very useful. Helpful comments too, from you all. I'm glad I'm thinking and asking about it way early. The whole bankruptcy thing did occur to me too. *poof*, and it's all gone....and at an age (and frailty) when you can't get it back. A rental seems a better idea. I'm leaning away from a ccrc.
? This is a little confusing, are you thinking CCRCs aren't rentals? The 4 CCRCs I've investigated are all rentals. In 2 of them, the independent living sections are 100% apartments and condos. The other 2 have a mixture of stand-alone homes, duplexes, and apartments. You don't own any equity - and we don't want to because at that stage of our lives we don't want the hassles of ownership.
Of course all of them charge substantial entry fees that are partly/wholly refundable. The entry fee indeed could indeed go poof in case of financial problems, and that's something DH & I are keeping under consideration. The risk of that happening is not by itself a deal breaker for us.

2 of the 4 CCRCs we've looked at are nonprofit. I doubt that means much in terms of financial stability but the finances are much more transparent so that's something.
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Food for thought and I haven't had time to work with on a broader scale. I used the link you provided and most of the Nursing Homes in Raleigh would not be on a scale I would seek to be in. However one was highly rated in all categories and was in a nice area and I said great let me look at their web site. Hmmm and double hmmmm. Was good and all you could want and it was part of a CCRC that was well rated. Made me wonder about the quality Nursing Homes in CCRC's and are some of the best ones in the best CCRC's? Not sure how easy it would be to get in this one if not coming from the CCRC and it made me think about the conversation I had with the folks at the new pay as you go CCRC we were looking at. Part of the appeal there is you are guaranteed admission into all of their facilities. It also helps keep down if not minimize Medicaid patients as you would have had to prepay to get in the program.
Here's more food for thought. You have to start reading things like bond information. Those mind-numbing prospectuses and the like. Here's one for Vicar's Landing:

Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board::EMMA

Robyn
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:06 AM
 
663 posts, read 484,945 times
Reputation: 1705
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
? This is a little confusing, are you thinking CCRCs aren't rentals? The 4 CCRCs I've investigated are all rentals. In 2 of them, the independent living sections are 100% apartments and condos. The other 2 have a mixture of stand-alone homes, duplexes, and apartments. You don't own any equity - and we don't want to because at that stage of our lives we don't want the hassles of ownership.
Of course all of them charge substantial entry fees that are partly/wholly refundable. The entry fee indeed could indeed go poof in case of financial problems, and that's something DH & I are keeping under consideration. The risk of that happening is not by itself a deal breaker for us.

2 of the 4 CCRCs we've looked at are nonprofit. I doubt that means much in terms of financial stability but the finances are much more transparent so that's something.
I do understand the rental portion...it's the buy-in that gives me great pause. I guess I didn't make that clear. I hadn't known that there were ccrc's without buy-ins.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
Reputation: 6724
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
Robyn Sidebar: Oddly enough, my new health insurance company just sent me (with their standard paperwork) all the legal health papers you mentioned, and I pulled the durable power of attorney off the internet. And my bank has a free notary (for customers). So I'll have myself set up for all that by the end of the week, and will give copies to my kid. (Told him I was making a "death file"). All for free. (I love free). It'll "do" for the temporariness of my residency.

So no more shame on me! :P

(Watching Downton again tonight reminded me to come back here to rectify my reputation!)

End of sidebar
Just remember that a Durable Power of Attorney usually starts today. You don't want to give a Durable Power of Attorney to anyone you don't trust 100%.

Also - different states have different execution rules for different kinds of documents. Some require witnesses - some don't. It's always best to check when it comes to your state's requirements.

Our bank doesn't offer notary services to seniors executing these kinds of documents anymore. There were too many cases where greedy kids got legally incompetent parents to sign things they shouldn't have signed <sigh>. Robyn
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,997,381 times
Reputation: 6724
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
I do understand the rental portion...it's the buy-in that gives me great pause. I guess I didn't make that clear. I hadn't known that there were ccrc's without buy-ins.
The only one I have seen here is one that recently emerged from bankruptcy and is now offering certain independent living units (no ALF or SNF care) on a rental only basis.

When I look at some of these places - I wonder where all the money went. For example - Vicar's Landing has (probably) easily taken in at least $50 million in entrance fees since it opened. Yet it still has many millions of dollars of bonds outstanding ($17.8 million). And it recently borrowed an additional $16 million to pay for renovations.

Fitch Affirms Life Care Ponte Vedra (FL) Bonds at 'BBB'; Outlook Stable | Business Wire

I have lived in condos and HOAs for the last 40 years - and they have almost always had adequate reserves to pay for necessary improvements/repairs. The only exception in those 40 years was a loss caused by Hurricane Andrew (a pretty extreme event). Among other things - we lost all our landscaping (washed out to sea). The loss wasn't covered by the condo insurance - and each unit was assessed about $10k to cover the loss (our personal loss assessment coverage on our homeowners' policy paid for the assessment).

It would make me very nervous to think I was living in a place that had collected a large amount of money from me - but didn't have the financial wherewithal to pay for routine maintenance/improvements that become necessary as a result of the age of the infrastructure. Keeping in mind that - in a CCRC - you really don't own anything. All you have is a promise that you will receive certain kinds of accommodations and services now and in the future if you continue to pay (often unknowable amounts of) fees.

Stories like this would also give me great pause:

Residents sue Palo Alto retirement community for 'up-streaming' $190 million - San Jose Mercury News

http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2...he-money/?_r=0

This too:

A retirement home offers a painful reminder about monopolies’ negative effects on consumers

Robyn
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