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Old 01-18-2016, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
In a lot of rural areas, the wage rate is more like $8-10 for the care assistants and the dietary employees. All these care facilities are EXTREMELY labor intensive and all costs will have to be passed on, often to a population that will not be able to afford it.
But many seniors can afford it. And expecting the working poor to subsidize our retirements/retirement communities just doesn't seem right to me. Doesn't seem right to many of the working poor either judging from anonymous job reviews written on websites like Indeed. FWIW - job review websites can be excellent places to get a sense of how a particular place is run. Robyn
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
So very and so disruptively true. Those cost in many cases will be passed on to Medicaid and Medicare depending on the care level. This has been a concern in the health care industry because when you can get $15 hour to flip burgers how much will it cost to get someone to change diapers. The cost will rise above the minimum wage of $15 hour.

We were listening to a lecture about the treatment of Alzheimer at one of the Memory care Facilities in Tucson when the doctor noted that memory care was not cheap - $45k per year. I was conjecturing with my wife that it could be $60k easily if the minimum wage goes through completely.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
We were listening to a lecture about the treatment of Alzheimer at one of the Memory care Facilities in Tucson when the doctor noted that memory care was not cheap - $45k per year. I was conjecturing with my wife that it could be $60k easily if the minimum wage goes through completely.
$45k/year *is* cheap if you're not talking about dumpy places like the two where my late uncle lived in California. In my neighborhood - which is not cheap but which is also far from a "very high priced spread" part of the US compared to parts of California - south Florida - New York - New Jersey - etc.) - "memory care" in the new ALF down the road would run you about $60-70k/year today. Note that the relatively small outfit which runs this facility has a pretty good reputation in terms of getting and keeping good employees. Presumably by paying them more than average/offering good benefits. We'll have to see how it goes (place hasn't been open for even a year).

When it comes to my late FIL's SNF here - when he was a resident (a decade+ ago) - it had a reputation for excellent pay and benefits. Which meant it had better than average employees and not a lot of employee turnover. Employee enthusiasm doesn't seem to be unanimous today:

River Garden Hebrew Home Careers and Employment | Indeed.com

FWIW - one of the problems I am seeing/reading about with senior facilities these days is people being in facilities that don't offer enough care for their needs. E.g., people who need ALFs are in independent living - people who need SNFs are in assisted living - etc. This seems to be the result of a number of things. People staying in place when they need more care - often as a result of limited financial resources. Operators wanting maximum occupancy even if units are filled with inappropriate residents. Etc. My father (who has all his marbles and is in "independent living") complains about this a lot. He would like to move to another senior place now - but there isn't anything in this area that would suit his current needs/wants (he wants a larger townhouse like the one he has now where all the residents are younger and have all their marbles - the food has to be great too ) Robyn
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:13 PM
 
29,774 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
$45k/year *is* cheap if you're not talking about dumpy places like the two where my late uncle lived in California. In my neighborhood - which is not cheap but which is also far from a "very high priced spread" part of the US compared to parts of California - south Florida - New York - New Jersey - etc.) - "memory care" in the new ALF down the road would run you about $60-70k/year today. Note that the relatively small outfit which runs this facility has a pretty good reputation in terms of getting and keeping good employees. Presumably by paying them more than average/offering good benefits. We'll have to see how it goes (place hasn't been open for even a year).

When it comes to my late FIL's SNF here - when he was a resident (a decade+ ago) - it had a reputation for excellent pay and benefits. Which meant it had better than average employees and not a lot of employee turnover. Employee enthusiasm doesn't seem to be unanimous today:

River Garden Hebrew Home Careers and Employment | Indeed.com

FWIW - one of the problems I am seeing/reading about with senior facilities these days is people being in facilities that don't offer enough care for their needs. E.g., people who need ALFs are in independent living - people who need SNFs are in assisted living - etc. This seems to be the result of a number of things. People staying in place when they need more care - often as a result of limited financial resources. Operators wanting maximum occupancy even if units are filled with inappropriate residents. Etc. My father (who has all his marbles and is in "independent living") complains about this a lot. He would like to move to another senior place now - but there isn't anything in this area that would suit his current needs/wants (he wants a larger townhouse like the one he has now where all the residents are younger and have all their marbles - the food has to be great too ) Robyn
Your last paragraph is one of the things I wonder about even in a quality CCRC. All of the various service tiers could be very good and you could be guaranteed entry into your needed service level. How do they make sure they have the space and the distribution they need of patients in the tiers provided?
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Your last paragraph is one of the things I wonder about even in a quality CCRC. All of the various service tiers could be very good and you could be guaranteed entry into your needed service level. How do they make sure they have the space and the distribution they need of patients in the tiers provided?
I suspect the places are making guesses based on historical statistics/actuarial assumptions. Like if X people move in at age 65 - Y% will need various higher levels of care 10-20-30 years down the road. I'm not sure these assumptions are necessarily valid. Like our local place - Vicar's Landing - has 265 independent living units (many of which are occupied by 2 people - usually a married couple) - and only 35 or so ALF beds and 60 SNF beds (of which only 15 are ok for Medicare rehab stays). There are lots of people there who moved in decades ago when they were in their 60's or early 70's. What will happen when people start hitting their late 80's - 90's - or even 100's? Got me.

I also guess places will do "wallet biopsies". Those people who can more easily pay the increased costs for increased care - without having to move out and possibly be entitled to get refunds - will get the space. Those who can't will stay at care levels that aren't necessarily appropriate for them. Most CCRC's require their "in-house" medical people to corroborate what your personal physician says you need in terms of care.

Another issue in your case is where your kids live. It is all well and good for people to say they don't want to burden their kids with taking care of them. But the biggest burden you can place on kids IMO is asking them to care for you long distance. When our fathers were both widowed - we made it clear we would do whatever they needed - whenever they needed it - as long as they moved to where we lived. Both of them did. And it has worked out very well for the most part. No way my husband and I would have spent the last 15 or so years driving regularly to south Florida or North Carolina (where they used to live) to take care of them. When your older folks are 5-10-15 miles away - almost everything - including chemo (been there - done that) - is relatively easy. If they're 500-1000-1500 miles - everything is hard. Have you talked to your kids about this? Robyn
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:14 AM
 
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Thanks for all the comments, including what to consider phase 3 of retirement, or CCRC.

We just visited four 55+ communities. Phoenix area - Sun City Grand and Corte Bella. Tucson's Saddle Brooke Ranch and the original Saddle Brooke. Learned a ton. With regard to my original question about assimilating into an established or developing community, the comments already provided are apt. There are always trade-offs. While a developing community guarantees a younger crowd, the established one has more "knowns". And in all these communities, the mantra of "everyone is from some somewhere else" suggests meeting new friends will be easy - younger and older. That you you can only have so many BBF's. Bottom line for us, these communities have 5000+ doorknobs. If 20-30% are in our age mix, that is plenty. Plus, more are arriving monthly. And yes, I too currently have "older" friends that are priceless.

I too golf. A lot. Wife does not. I think I need a community full of toys, clubs and folks realizing that being non-productive is AOK. In San Diego, Rancho Bernardo filled the golf need, but the rest of the community was lacking the amenities that I think I need to keep busy. Thus, a 55+ in AZ fits the needs. Next, we favor Tucson over Phoenix. And because of 3 golf courses, Saddle Brooke became the clear, more affordable winner.

Next question: when to buy? Coming from 1.5 acres, neighbors not seen from our back yard, we want a home on cul-de-sac. And those are even harder to find in a newer community as the developer maximizes every square inch with straight lines, or homes lined up in a row. So we are considering buying 2-3 years early to capitalize on the lot and home floor plans we prefer. And that is another sore subject. It's amazing how many floor plans' main TV rooms do not allow enough space for the 88" couch directly facing the TV, with room for a love seat on one side, and a chair/recliner on the other. Most floor plans are 2-3 feet too narrow - - IMHO.

Good to have options. Online research, google maps, zillow, visits, and these CD forums are all valuable pieces of the puzzle for each of us.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
156 posts, read 149,444 times
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Golf4ever: Just curious . . . do you plan to live at Saddlebrooke year round or seasonally? I ask because we are considering the same questions as you discuss. Also, we are very favorably impressed with Robson as a 55+ choice.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:38 PM
 
29 posts, read 27,172 times
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year round while exploring an exit strategy for July and August in the first 5-7 years.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by golf4ever View Post
year round while exploring an exit strategy for July and August in the first 5-7 years.
Logan, UT offers a "Summer Citizens" program largely targeting Arizona residents that runs from May 25 - August 15th approximately.

Summer Citizens


By the way, the month of June in Tucson is a lot worse than August due to the monsoon rains.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:04 AM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,948,466 times
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Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
Many retirement type communities are mostly full of out of state transplants so, to me anyway, the issue of being in a conservative or liberal area is less important because most of your neighbors aren't locals anyway. Outside the boundaries of the community, however, you might want to consider that if it's a concern for you. I really don't care, because I don't advertise my politics and I don't judge people that way.

In our older community, we have quite a turnover. Many of the early residents have aged to the point that they are moving back to where there families are able to care for them, or into IL or AL facilities. So those homes get resold and purchased by younger people. Also the latter half of the boomers are just now starting to be able to retire after recovering from the crash of 2007-08. Also since we're really not age restricted, we always have a few younger than retired folks around. The development is now working with some new builders to develop some lots into smaller, more handi-adapted one level homes for downsizers. And we have a group that's working to develop programs to keep our eldest folks in their homes. We have recently added a ride program for those who are no longer driving, and a volunteer handyman program for small repairs that are too small for a paid service worker to be interested in.
Boy are you EVER a good spokesperson for your community! It's right up there on my Grand National Parks RV Tour!
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