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Old 01-18-2016, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Suevee View Post
I am curious. I hear and read so much about financially preparing for these living arrangements. In my family and in my husband's family no one has used these options. All of them have lived in their homes or with family until death. All were comfortable up to the end surrounded by family. Some combined resources with other family members, some stayed independent in their own homes with family near by for support. It seems if we survive our sixties, we stick around until our mid-eighties and some beyond that.

Are we an anomaly? Or is this more common than reported?

How Many Seniors Really End Up In Nursing Homes? | Nursing Home Diaries

How many older people live in nursing homes in the United States?

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time. The rate of nursing home use increases with age from 1.4 percent of the young-old to 24.5 percent of the oldest-old. Almost 50 percent of those 95 and older live in nursing homes.

Linda Breytspraak, Center on Aging Studies, University of Missouri-Kansas City
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
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My mom lived in IL and in a wheelchair until her health issues became so extreme that after an amputation she ended up in SNF until her death 3 months later. She was 65. My dad had Alzheimer's and was moved into a memory care unit after he walked out of the house and into the forest one day when his wife was not feeling well and wasn't watching him. After the sheriff's helicopter found him a mile from home lost in the woods, my half-brother and stepmom decided it was time. He died there 3 years later. My stepmom lived in the AL across the street from the memory care because she had breast cancer and was having trouble caring for herself and she wanted to be near dad. My MIL is in AL now because her dementia is at the point where she can appear to function normally, but she can't remember what meds she has taken and she was hording because she kept buying the same things over and over even though she had dozens of those things already. She can't handle any finances and loses pretty much everything, like wallets, keys, phones, etc, multiple times per week. She's 89 so we're not totally surprised by this. Her mom lived to 94, so we figure she will probably be in memory care for a few years when she gets worse. FIL died 10 years ago at home from cancer and MIL cared for him with hospice help until the end. So 4 out of 5 parents needed some form of LTC.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
My mom lived in IL and in a wheelchair until her health issues became so extreme that after an amputation she ended up in SNF until her death 3 months later. She was 65. My dad had Alzheimer's and was moved into a memory care unit after he walked out of the house and into the forest one day when his wife was not feeling well and wasn't watching him. After the sheriff's helicopter found him a mile from home lost in the woods, my half-brother and stepmom decided it was time. He died there 3 years later. My stepmom lived in the AL across the street from the memory care because she had breast cancer and was having trouble caring for herself and she wanted to be near dad. My MIL is in AL now because her dementia is at the point where she can appear to function normally, but she can't remember what meds she has taken and she was hording because she kept buying the same things over and over even though she had dozens of those things already. She can't handle any finances and loses pretty much everything, like wallets, keys, phones, etc, multiple times per week. She's 89 so we're not totally surprised by this. Her mom lived to 94, so we figure she will probably be in memory care for a few years when she gets worse. FIL died 10 years ago at home from cancer and MIL cared for him with hospice help until the end. So 4 out of 5 parents needed some form of LTC.
Your Dad isn't the only one who has done something like that:

Alzheimer's patient safe thanks to volunteer search | Jacksonville.com

This man also wound up in an ALF after he was found. Robyn
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,238 posts, read 8,527,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
How Many Seniors Really End Up In Nursing Homes? | Nursing Home Diaries

How many older people live in nursing homes in the United States?

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time. The rate of nursing home use increases with age from 1.4 percent of the young-old to 24.5 percent of the oldest-old. Almost 50 percent of those 95 and older live in nursing homes.

Linda Breytspraak, Center on Aging Studies, University of Missouri-Kansas City
That's a 5% "snapshot". What percentage EVER are in a nursing home/assisted living/etc. and what is the average time spent there (I wouldn't be concerned about a couple months for rehab, e.g.).
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
That's a 5% "snapshot". What percentage EVER are in a nursing home/assisted living/etc. and what is the average time spent there (I wouldn't be concerned about a couple months for rehab, e.g.).
According to the CEO of my late FIL's SNF (who has been in the business for a long time) - it's approximately 50% and the average length of stay for a long term care stay (not a rehab stay) is about 2.5 years. These numbers came up in the context of discussions we had with him about a national LTC insurance plan (which he is in favor of). Robyn
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
According to the CEO of my late FIL's SNF (who has been in the business for a long time) - it's approximately 50% and the average length of stay for a long term care stay (not a rehab stay) is about 2.5 years. These numbers came up in the context of discussions we had with him about a national LTC insurance plan (which he is in favor of). Robyn
Robyn, I suspect the avg stay varies with the quality of the facility and the wealth of the patient. Many of the environmental things can can stimulate an interest in living and prolonging health come with a cost and come with the highest quality care providers. Got to be something somewhere that gives the average length of stay by nursing home tier.
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:25 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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OT, but for 2016, ltc insurance can be deducted. It's must be new for 2016.
http://m.kiplinger.com/slideshow/inv...ex.html?page=9
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
OT, but for 2016, ltc insurance can be deducted. It's must be new for 2016.
Best Bond Funds for Income Investors
Nothing new about that deduction at all. It's been around for a long time:

The Tax Deductibility of Long-Term Care Insurance Premiums | ElderLawAnswers

Robyn
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Old 01-19-2016, 01:13 PM
 
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As for length of nursing home stay, as was stated that can vary because of the quality of care in the institution.

Look at the number of people who (I'm told) do down hill once in a SNF.
They've been at home doing relatively fine, but for whatever reason go to a SNF….and do down hill. WHERE AS, IF they'd been able to stay, or go back home after an incident, would NOT deteriorate any where near as immediately after.

So when I look at "length of stay' -- I look at what the person had (condition or illness) -- AND what kind of care did they get in the SNF. Did they start getting UTIs, did they no longer have CARING attendants? etc.

My understand is that the "average length of stay is about two years. IF you don't count dementia patients who could live longer than most other patients and skew the length of stay UPWARD…..I'd think the length of stay is definitely two years or less. (We can debate a margin of error.)
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Robyn, I suspect the avg stay varies with the quality of the facility and the wealth of the patient. Many of the environmental things can can stimulate an interest in living and prolonging health come with a cost and come with the highest quality care providers. Got to be something somewhere that gives the average length of stay by nursing home tier.
There are other variables as well. For example - some people arrive at SNFs with some life left in them. Others show up at SNFs only when they're at death's door (often after overstaying their time in an ALF that can't care for them properly - often due to financial issues).

I agree that the quality of the facility makes a difference. And I don't need any study to tell me that. I have no doubt that my late FIL wouldn't have lasted 6 months in any local SNF (in the Pinehurst NC area). Here - he lasted 2 1/2 years. My SIL - who lived near my FIL - complained that we were robbing her of her last weeks/months with her father - but even she admitted that he was much better off here than in NC after she took a look at where he lived here.

To give you an example of the lousy care in that part of NC - we once showed up for a family wedding - one of my FIL's granddaughters. My FIL was in a SNF for rehab after an operation - a urostomy. Where the SNF people were supposed to - among other things - teach him how to use a urostomy bag. We saw him 2 days before the wedding - and he said he didn't want to go. After a considerable amount of prying (he was a very reserved man) - we found out the place hadn't done anything in terms of teaching him how to use the equipment. And hadn't bathed him in 3 days either!!!! So he knew he was "leaking" and he smelled bad. My husband and I hit the roof. We got a private urostomy nurse ASAP - who taught him how to use the urostomy equipment the next day (my FIL was a very handy guy). And we told the SNF manager - who was invited to the wedding! - in no uncertain terms - that he would be persona non grata at the wedding unless my FIL had a shower and a shave and was cleaned up and dressed when we picked him up the next day. Which he was.

FWIW - my SIL and her husband got PO'd at US. Because we had spoken harshly to and offended their friend the SNF manager . They were more concerned about having friends in their small town community than getting proper care for my FIL .

BTW - even though we had zero complaints about our local SNF (which has won the Gold Seal Governor's Award in Florida every year since the program started) - our experiences in NC with a few SNFs that my in-laws wound up in for various shorter periods of time lead me to conclude that when people here on CD complain about various SNFs - they are telling the truth. Note that my FIL was the VP of the Resident's Council of his SNF here for about 18 months - and the complaints he brought to the attention of management in that capacity were mostly about the preparations of various foods that weren't to the liking of many residents. But a lot of that was because that even though my FIL wasn't Jewish - the SNF was strict Kosher and that was an issue.* Margarine just doesn't taste as good as butter when it comes to mashed potatoes. We used to take him out for breakfast once a week so he could get the 2 slices of bacon he was allowed to eat a week on his strict CHF diet . In the scheme of things - when it comes to SNF complaints - those are very minor issues IMO.

I think a lot of this is as much a matter of common sense as statistics. OTOH - perhaps some people haven't been around SNFs even as much as my husband have been - so they haven't seen the good - the bad - and the ugly. Robyn

*This SNF is a private religious non-profit place. But - because it accepts federal money - Medicare and Medicaid - it can't (and doesn't) discriminate. OTOH - when you're in an outfit run by a religious outfit - you have to accept the way it's run. Whether it comes to dietary rules or putting up holiday decorations. I know some people of Arab descent in this area - like my dentist - whose relatives won't go to this SNF - even though it's certainly the best SNF in the area - just because they can't stand seeing things like Stars Of David or Menorahs. Their loss IMO - let them start their own SNF <shrug>.
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