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Old 01-31-2016, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
Reputation: 6716

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Brilliantly put!

One of the reasons that I was so distraught in recent weeks, with the seemingly unrelenting stock market losses, was that there was nobody with whom to commiserate. Instead, when I piped up to share my frustration at work, I was met with gleefully sadistic taunts of, "Well, it must be nice to be able to lose all that money!" This goes beyond finding good tax-advisors or accountants or whatnot. It's about psychological support from a suitable peer-group.

I work amongst engineers. Many have PhDs, and most are t least somewhat true to the engineering stereotype of frugality. But they have families, stay-at-home spouses, 2-3 kids (or more; it's a conservative area) to raise, Millennials who boomeranged back home, investment-houses that have gone sour, elderly parents that require live-in care, McMansions with landscaping costs, new cars, a boat. I've spent a lifetime living like Freemkt (probably) and earning/saving like Mathjak or Sportyandmisty (probably; I don't mean to insult people or to use them as cartoonish stereotypes). This means, for me, one foot in the dollar-store/Goodwill/bargain-bin aisle, and another foot in the, ahem, opposite camp - completely bypassing (again not to make idle insinuations about people) the middle-class.

This means dearth of capacity to commiserate, to get together socially for exchanging ideas on investment - or just idle banter. It's important to be around a peer-group, even if no actionable knowledge is exchanged, just for the moral support. Am I peeved that I'm ignorant of clever and abstruse tax-loopholes, of which the mythical "wealthy" can take advantage? Yes, at least a little bit. But what really irritates me is that I don't have anyone to whom to vent, about $XYZ losses on a crushing day in the market.

Likes flocks to like, right? Where should I flock?
If you need people other than a spouse or perhaps a close friend or two to BS with about your investments - your earnings - your lifestyle - etc. - whether to celebrate your victories or commiserate your losses - well - in all honesty - you sound like a child to me. Not grown up yet. We make our lives - and we live them. And we deal with the consequences of our choices. Note that most of our choices can be modified over the years - albeit only gradually sometimes - if we're not comfortable or happy with them.

I'll be 70 soon - and my husband is 70+. We basically still learn as we go - building on the knowledge we already have - especially as markets change and we change - get older - too. And - to the extent that we discuss/consider important matters - we pretty much keep the important things between the 2 of us. Robyn
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:04 PM
 
2,443 posts, read 2,073,079 times
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The stock market is not the place to be if you can't ride out the rollercoaster of highs and lows.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:18 PM
 
7,936 posts, read 5,045,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The original intention was to get everyone to invest as much money as possible with the author of such nonsense.
The overall intent of the financial-services industry is to get people to invest as much as possible. OK, individual investment-products might be shoddy or suspect. But I don't see anything sinister in cajoling people into saving more and spending less. If ALL of us did this, the economy would slow and falter. But I don't see much practical danger of that.

The problem comes when retail-investors are seduced by the promise of enormous gains. Even 8% compounded annually, over 30 or 40 years, is enormous! If we scrimp today, to enjoy enormous bounty in the future, that's fine; the sacrifice is justified. But if after decades of oscillations and tumults, we're only slightly ahead – cumulatively – of where we were, had we locked wads of moldy $100 bills in a safety deposit box – the whole idea of investment feels silly and unjustified.

I wonder how Japanese domestic investors are viewing life right now. The Nikkei peaked in something like 1989 (or was it 1986?), and today is barely half of that. What happened to Japanese people who were kids during WW2, who spent their youth and young-adulthood rebuilding a pulverized country, who saw glimmer of ascendancy in the 1960s, then prosperity in the 1970s and 1980s, and – for the past 30 years – nothing but doldrums, hesitation and decay?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
If you need people other than a spouse or perhaps a close friend or two to BS with about your investments - your earnings - your lifestyle - etc. - whether to celebrate your victories or commiserate your losses - well - in all honesty - you sound like a child to me. ...

I'll be 70 soon - and my husband is 70+. We basically still learn as we go - building on the knowledge we already have - especially as markets change and we change - get older - too. And - to the extent that we discuss/consider important matters - we pretty much keep the important things between the 2 of us. Robyn
Your resoluteness is commendable, but I hasten to add that you DO have a spouse (and an understanding one, at that) and evidently a small but tight circle of friends. Not all of us are so blessed.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the big issue for most of us without employer healthcare anymore is healthcare costs . especially if you retire at 62...
I agree with that 100%. When we were in our 50's - we thought Medicare would be like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag

Hasn't turned out that way. Between what we pay for our Medicare (no high income surcharge today) and our Medigap policies - and our Part D plans - and what our Part D plans don't cover in the way of drugs (we don't have any super expensive ones) - and things that Medicare doesn't cover like glasses and dental care - well that was about $10,500 out of pocket last year. Which doesn't include what we paid for a concierge primary care practice at Mayo JAX here (so we don't have to get our primary care from a PA at Walgreen's or deal with a local family practice doc who doesn't speak English as a first language).

Higher end medical care is - increasingly - becoming a luxury these days. Robyn
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses View Post
Yes indeed. But finding that knowledgable advisor is not always easy. My IRA is with Fidelity which is good for building retirement funds, but they are not that helpful on the tax aspects, since I guess that is not their job.
There really isn't much in the way of loopholes for people who are W-2 wage earners these days. Except perhaps in terms of planning their retirement contributions best as possible. Don't think you're missing much - if anything. Robyn
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:44 PM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,092,563 times
Reputation: 3835
Social Security will be bankrupt by the time I'm eligible, and I've paid into it for more than 25 years, and that makes me very, very angry.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:49 PM
 
71,651 posts, read 71,777,271 times
Reputation: 49241
we all want to thank you for your support
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:51 PM
 
71,651 posts, read 71,777,271 times
Reputation: 49241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I agree with that 100%. When we were in our 50's - we thought Medicare would be like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag

Hasn't turned out that way. Between what we pay for our Medicare (no high income surcharge today) and our Medigap policies - and our Part D plans - and what our Part D plans don't cover in the way of drugs (we don't have any super expensive ones) - and things that Medicare doesn't cover like glasses and dental care - well that was about $10,500 out of pocket last year. Which doesn't include what we paid for a concierge primary care practice at Mayo JAX here (so we don't have to get our primary care from a PA at Walgreen's or deal with a local family practice doc who doesn't speak English as a first language).

Higher end medical care is - increasingly - becoming a luxury these days. Robyn
ours runs close to 12k without dental and glasses since i am not on medicare yet .

we got whacked on medicare for 2016 at 389.50 a month . hopefully it is just this year we got surcharged .
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
market investments are all about the time frames unique to you .

while some are better then others usually over typical accumulation time frames spanning decades of time they do fairly well .

when we do have crappy time frames like 2000-2015 the time frames leading up to them or after them generally are pretty good so they just average out those excellent years back to the averages again .

odds are take any rolling typical accumulation time frame which can be 20-30 working years and returns are not to shabby .

we can all cherry pick shorter time frames within an accumulation time frame where things sucked wind but when the whole picture is looked at it usually looks a lot better .
The best indicators of market returns are earnings and dividends. Today - SP500 earnings are down 14% YOY - while the SP500 is only down 2% YOY. Dividends are a little more than 2%. Do the math. I can't predict the future - but only expect more stomach churning volatility when it comes to equities - especially now that computers are doing most of the trading volume. Robyn
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it might be a better idea . but then again if i lived in long island and my kids and grand kids were there i can't fathom being anywhere else
Seems like those Long Island people are moving in droves to my neck of the woods. And grandma and grandpa are following them. Can't say I really like the exodus from there to here. Robyn
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