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Old 01-31-2016, 06:59 AM
 
Location: USA
6,223 posts, read 5,353,584 times
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Any job that pays half decently is going to have a 401k, pension, or whatever. A low wage worker isn't going to have squat to save regardless.
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Eastern UP of Michigan
1,202 posts, read 682,104 times
Reputation: 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker;42839075[COLOR=red
]Any job that pays half decently is going to have a 401k, pension, or whatever.[/color] A low wage worker isn't going to have squat to save regardless.


Actually not completely true. Full time employees make about 25-35K not great but not horrible for working in a local hardware. Ours cancelled due to expenses charged by the administrator and they had different admins over the period of time.


Most fulltime people there were like me--where previous longterm employer closed in the 2000 or 2009 recession and 45-50 years old at that time. Not a fabulous income but all things considered--- they also provided medical.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,842,106 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
Any job that pays half decently is going to have a 401k, pension, or whatever. A low wage worker isn't going to have squat to save regardless.
Absolutely untrue. It is not mandated that they have a 401k for employees and even if they do it is not mandated they have to match anything. Also depending on that employer they may or may not have chosen a good product either. If they didn't and that product does poorly then what good is the matching if the funds they are investing in lose money. I not even talking about a drop in the market.

A lot of people do not understand the investment vehicle they are given choices to. Even the smartest among us here on CD cannot tell you which funds are the very best because they fluctuate so much. Even if that very smart person picks the right fund it don't mean it is in your choices in the 401k.

I am a simple man. I use the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). Give me access to the broadest index funds available. Allow me to invest my money and any matching money in those and let me let her ride. Time is the best. If you have the time then just adjust only if you reach a critical milestone such as retirement or just before retirement. If the market is down at that point, there is nothing you can do but roll with it. If you have done the right thing over the long haul it will work and you will have some flexibility.

So back to the TSP point here. That is why I think this is a good idea. It is simple. See how the funds are invested in my previous post. Look how those have faired over the last few years and you decide.
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
Absolutely untrue. It is not mandated that they have a 401k for employees and even if they do it is not mandated they have to match anything. Also depending on that employer they may or may not have chosen a good product either. If they didn't and that product does poorly then what good is the matching if the funds they are investing in lose money. I not even talking about a drop in the market.

A lot of people do not understand the investment vehicle they are given choices to. Even the smartest among us here on CD cannot tell you which funds are the very best because they fluctuate so much. Even if that very smart person picks the right fund it don't mean it is in your choices in the 401k.

I am a simple man. I use the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). Give me access to the broadest index funds available. Allow me to invest my money and any matching money in those and let me let her ride. Time is the best. If you have the time then just adjust only if you reach a critical milestone such as retirement or just before retirement. If the market is down at that point, there is nothing you can do but roll with it. If you have done the right thing over the long haul it will work and you will have some flexibility.

So back to the TSP point here. That is why I think this is a good idea. It is simple. See how the funds are invested in my previous post. Look how those have faired over the last few years and you decide.
That article didn't say the money would be invested in TSP funds.
It said "TSP like" funds.
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:22 AM
 
2,037 posts, read 1,945,753 times
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That article didn't say the money would be invested in TSP funds.
It said "TSP like" funds.
TSP like funds would be low cost index funds that are good enough for Warren Buffett to recommend them for his kids.

Warren Buffett to Heirs: Just Use Index Funds

You can go buy expensive actively managed funds if you want but at least let everyone have the opportunity to participate in TSP like funds.
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Old 01-31-2016, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumbling View Post
TSP like funds would be low cost index funds that are good enough for Warren Buffett to recommend them for his kids.

Warren Buffett to Heirs: Just Use Index Funds

You can go buy expensive actively managed funds if you want but at least let everyone have the opportunity to participate in TSP like funds.
there are plenty of low cost index funds out there now.
You don't need the government to invest in them.

Maybe the real need is that groups think that money should be taken from people and invested for retirement for their own good.

And for sure there are people out there that do not think beyond today.

But no one should mandate that money be taken from all Americans "for their own good".


5 Best Low-Cost Index Funds Fit for a King | InvestorPlace
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Old 01-31-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,842,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
there are plenty of low cost index funds out there now.
You don't need the government to invest in them.

Maybe the real need is that groups think that money should be taken from people and invested for retirement for their own good.

And for sure there are people out there that do not think beyond today.

But no one should mandate that money be taken from all Americans "for their own good".


5 Best Low-Cost Index Funds Fit for a King | InvestorPlace
I agree that it should not be mandated. I do disagree that people can just find those funds. I think it should be a part of the in process getting into a new employment. The idea I would like to see is that they would be given access to the TSP like funds at work. If a company likes to keep good employees they would be able to match some of the investments the employees make. It just makes is easier for the employer. It is hard enough as it is.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:27 PM
 
2,037 posts, read 1,945,753 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
there are plenty of low cost index funds out there now.
You don't need the government to invest in them.

Maybe the real need is that groups think that money should be taken from people and invested for retirement for their own good.

And for sure there are people out there that do not think beyond today.

But no one should mandate that money be taken from all Americans "for their own good".


5 Best Low-Cost Index Funds Fit for a King | InvestorPlace
I agree about no mandate but universal access to this low cost option for all Americans, that limits the money funneled from Americans to Fidelity and other high expense funds, is for the good of all Americans. I'd even say rather than a mandate we can by default enroll everyone in something like this but they are free to actively de-enroll from it.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by fumbling View Post
I agree about no mandate but universal access to this low cost option for all Americans, that limits the money funneled from Americans to Fidelity and other high expense funds, is for the good of all Americans. I'd even say rather than a mandate we can by default enroll everyone in something like this but they are free to actively de-enroll from it.
When I worked I had a pension, 401K, IRA and Roth in addition to my own taxable investments. I wouldn't want to be enrolled automatically.
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:34 PM
 
504 posts, read 652,675 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
When I worked I had a pension, 401K, IRA and Roth in addition to my own taxable investments. I wouldn't want to be enrolled automatically.
Why not? As long as it is easy to disenroll or change your allocation what is the harm?


And it having the "default" being enrollment rather than non-enrollment would get a heck of a lot more people to save for their future. Which is better than my taxes having to support them when they are old because they failed to save.
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