U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-03-2016, 09:11 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,824,529 times
Reputation: 13083

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
$2300 a month is an unlivable income. It borders on abject poverty. It's not about standards, it's about quality of life.
I sure hope you aren't one of those people vehemently opposed to the minimum wage being increased!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-03-2016, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,847,776 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Gee, should I just kill myself now?

Wait until I kill myself first and I make 5k a month. Geesh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
I'm not knocking anyone who lives on 2k a month. I just think it's an unlivable income. Maybe some people can do it. I know we couldn't. And we retired to Arizona, where we found that it was just as expensive as living in Alaska. Only now we lost important benefits of living in Alaska and we now had to pay income taxes in AZ that we didn't have to in Alaska. Add in the punitive sales tax and it's probably more expensive. So there was no real lower COL. In the end, we moved back to Alaska and kept the AZ house as a winter getaway.


Honestly that is so out of touch with real people. First lets start with 10k a moth equates to a 120k a year salary. That is nearly twice my salary and I am considered rich by my friends. I don't own a winter and summer home. In fact I know I couldn't afford it.


As for your mistake on moving from AK to AZ well you must live with it. You have dealt with it by going back to income tax free AK and I hope you paid cash for your home in AZ so then you can just use it as equity should you decide to get a home in the French Riviera. Hell how about Nice instead?


So many people even on here live on less than that and consider themselves fortunate. We can't all work on oil rigs. Not everyone can be a lawyer or doctor. Some of us have to mow lawns or pick up trash.


The point I want everyone to know life is like the army in a lot of ways. For every fighting soldier out there (the straight leg infantry soldier with a ruck sack on his back) there are 5 support soldiers. Think about that a second as I tell you that there needs to be a supply person getting equipment. Mechanics to fix the equipment (trucks, radios, satellite equipment). Finance personnel to make sure they get paid. Cooks to feed them. Truck drivers to get the equipment around and the soldiers themselves. That is to name just a few.


It is no different in the civilian world. For every millionaire how many folks do you think he is getting rich off of. For one Bill Gates and Microsoft. What about how many of those 120k a year jobs are out there? There aren't 300 million. Even if there were who is left for the restaurants you visit? How about those mechanics to fix that Jaq? Who is picking up the trash left at the end of your driveway? Sometimes I get so frustrated when people think that everyone has that chance. Well yes but not everyone can make it even under the best situations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,254 posts, read 4,139,840 times
Reputation: 15666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
I sure hope you aren't one of those people vehemently opposed to the minimum wage being increased!

The minimum wage should be dictated by the market, not the government. All those people who live in the new $15 min wage areas are about to get a dose of reality. You cannot raise the minimum wage and expect it to be rainbows and unicorns. There are consequences and those who can least afford it will be hit the hardest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,254 posts, read 4,139,840 times
Reputation: 15666
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
Wait until I kill myself first and I make 5k a month. Geesh!





Honestly that is so out of touch with real people. First lets start with 10k a moth equates to a 120k a year salary. That is nearly twice my salary and I am considered rich by my friends. I don't own a winter and summer home. In fact I know I couldn't afford it.


As for your mistake on moving from AK to AZ well you must live with it. You have dealt with it by going back to income tax free AK and I hope you paid cash for your home in AZ so then you can just use it as equity should you decide to get a home in the French Riviera. Hell how about Nice instead?


So many people even on here live on less than that and consider themselves fortunate. We can't all work on oil rigs. Not everyone can be a lawyer or doctor. Some of us have to mow lawns or pick up trash.


The point I want everyone to know life is like the army in a lot of ways. For every fighting soldier out there (the straight leg infantry soldier with a ruck sack on his back) there are 5 support soldiers. Think about that a second as I tell you that there needs to be a supply person getting equipment. Mechanics to fix the equipment (trucks, radios, satellite equipment). Finance personnel to make sure they get paid. Cooks to feed them. Truck drivers to get the equipment around and the soldiers themselves. That is to name just a few.


It is no different in the civilian world. For every millionaire how many folks do you think he is getting rich off of. For one Bill Gates and Microsoft. What about how many of those 120k a year jobs are out there? There aren't 300 million. Even if there were who is left for the restaurants you visit? How about those mechanics to fix that Jaq? Who is picking up the trash left at the end of your driveway? Sometimes I get so frustrated when people think that everyone has that chance. Well yes but not everyone can make it even under the best situations.

I wouldn't call our move to AZ a mistake. We wanted to try it and see how it worked for us. We are keeping the AZ house and will spend winters down there. And we get to enjoy the beautiful Alaska summers and see the children and grandchildren more often. Best of both worlds. As for the French Riviera and Nice, Europe is toast. I won't even vacation there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Idaho
1,454 posts, read 1,155,024 times
Reputation: 5492
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
What about how many of those 120k a year jobs are out there?
Here is the answer to your questions

What "Percent" Is Your Household?

Annual Household Income % of Americans Earning More

*$115,000 to $119,999 14.07%
*$120,000 to $124,999 12.83%

So if the annual income is 120K, there are ~13% of Americans earn more than and 87% of Americans earn less.

I looked up the numbers and there are 123.2M households in the US in 2014. 13% of this number gives 1.6M households. So, the air which AlaskaErik breathes is shared by over 1 millions American Households, not quite rarefied but close enough ;-)

BTW, here is number for the households which earn between $2100 and $2300/month (the 'unlivable income' according to AE).

Annual Household Income % of Americans Earning More
*
$25,000 to $29,999 68.64%

So these people are in the 32 percentile and there are 39.4M households earn even less than this group of people. I suspect that a lot of those poor people eat 'cake' ;-)

Last edited by BellaDL; 02-03-2016 at 10:39 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:28 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,824,529 times
Reputation: 13083
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
The minimum wage should be dictated by the market, not the government. All those people who live in the new $15 min wage areas are about to get a dose of reality. You cannot raise the minimum wage and expect it to be rainbows and unicorns. There are consequences and those who can least afford it will be hit the hardest.
So, you ARE one of those people. How do you justify in your mind the 'fact' that $2,300/month income is poverty yet someone making minimum wage brings in $1,160/month BEFORE taxes? (assuming a 40 hour week) For that matter, two people living together and both making minimum wage are STILL living in poverty, according to you.

Please, no need to answer, I don't expect one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:31 AM
 
633 posts, read 462,824 times
Reputation: 1103
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
The minimum wage should be dictated by the market, not the government. All those people who live in the new $15 min wage areas are about to get a dose of reality. You cannot raise the minimum wage and expect it to be rainbows and unicorns. There are consequences and those who can least afford it will be hit the hardest.
If "The Market" had it's way, it would pay you $2 an hour or less just as it does illegal immigrants, since they don't have the option of complaining to the government about unfair labor practices or overtime violations. It would ship in H1B employees from india and Pakistan over hiring US citizens for everything it possibly could. It would pay you entirely in "company credits" that are only good for buying material at "company stores" at laughably inflated prices. These are all things that have happened, are happening, or barely kept in check by government regulation.


"The Market" being unable to regulate itself is why we have child labor laws, OSHA, overtime laws and 40 hour workweeks (except exempt employees), and discrimination laws to prevent racial, gender based, and age based hiring and compensation.


Why you would think the market is any better at setting a fair wage than it is at not sending 5 year olds to get mangled in factories is beyond me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,783 posts, read 4,836,241 times
Reputation: 19458
Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaDL View Post
Here is the answer to your questions

What "Percent" Is Your Household?

Annual Household Income % of Americans Earning More

*$115,000 to $119,999 14.07%
*$120,000 to $124,999 12.83%

So if the annual income is 120K, there are ~13% of Americans earn more than and 87% of Americans earn less.
And that is primarily WORKING people, not retirees! I doubt if 3% of retirees have an income of $120K per year.

Alaskaboy seems to live in a fantasy world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,254 posts, read 4,139,840 times
Reputation: 15666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
So, you ARE one of those people. How do you justify in your mind the 'fact' that $2,300/month income is poverty yet someone making minimum wage brings in $1,160/month BEFORE taxes? (assuming a 40 hour week) For that matter, two people living together and both making minimum wage are STILL living in poverty, according to you.

Please, no need to answer, I don't expect one.
So I am one of THOSE people. The minimum wage is an entry level wage for teenagers. If you're a family person or an older person making minimum wage then you are an underachiever. Why should society prop you up because you choose to not make yourself more valuable than the minimum wage? I had minimum wage jobs in high school and college. But I progressed past that point, as do most people. If you look at everyone who had a minimum wage job five years ago and again today, you'd find most people that had one five years ago are making more today. Very few people are still making minimum wage after five years. If you'd talk to a real economist, and not a political hack with an agenda, you'd find that the minimum wage does more harm than good.

Last edited by AlaskaErik; 02-03-2016 at 11:49 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2016, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,254 posts, read 4,139,840 times
Reputation: 15666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burger Fan View Post
If "The Market" had it's way, it would pay you $2 an hour or less just as it does illegal immigrants, since they don't have the option of complaining to the government about unfair labor practices or overtime violations. It would ship in H1B employees from india and Pakistan over hiring US citizens for everything it possibly could. It would pay you entirely in "company credits" that are only good for buying material at "company stores" at laughably inflated prices. These are all things that have happened, are happening, or barely kept in check by government regulation.


"The Market" being unable to regulate itself is why we have child labor laws, OSHA, overtime laws and 40 hour workweeks (except exempt employees), and discrimination laws to prevent racial, gender based, and age based hiring and compensation.


Why you would think the market is any better at setting a fair wage than it is at not sending 5 year olds to get mangled in factories is beyond me.

What you're bringing up is market interference by the government by action and inaction. And don't bring up scenarios that would never happen in America today. No one would hire a five year old to work in a factory even if there was no law against it. Society has moved way beyond that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top