Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So I am one of THOSE people. The minimum wage is an entry level wage for teenagers. If you're a familiy person or an older person making minimum wage then you are an underachiever. Why should society prop you up because you choose to not make yourself more valuable than the minimum wage? I had minimum wage jobs in high school and college. But I progressed past that point, as do most people. If you look at everyone who had a minimum wage job five years ago and again today, you'd find most people that had one five years ago are making more today. Very few people are still making minimum wage after five years. If you'd talk to a real economist, and not a political hack with an agenda, you'd find that the minimum wage does more harm than good.
Blah, blah, blah.
The minimum wage was established as a 'living' wage. In other words, it was the minimum amount someone would need to be able to afford food, clothing, and housing.
BTW, I don't listen to political hacks or anyone else, for that matter. I'm very much able to form my own opinions.
So, all you have is your SS? My other half can also get SS if he applies. He is up in the air about it for some reason. Hasn't even put in for Medicare. Relies on his federal insurance plan FEPBlue. But boy was he in shock when he was told he had a co-pay for his prostate cancer surgery.
He worked many other side jobs over the years to complete all his SS quarters. His government job didn't pay into SS.
I should also be able to collect SS. Military personnel do pay into that.
Seems like a good time here to bring up the "Windfall elimination"provision, well known to those federal employees who worked under the pre-1983 federal retirement system, and also worked enough quarters in other jobs to be eligible for social security. Seems if you collect a federal pension, and also earned social security, your SS benefits can be reduced by varying amounts depending on a number of factors.
My husband is an example, he worked for the federal government for 32 yrs, and at other private sector jobs for another 17 years. And many of those private sector job years he worked as an independent contractor, paying into SS/Medicare at a rate of 15.8% ( no employer paid benefits). At the time he finally retired ( he retired from his federal job and then worked another full time job for another 7 yrs after that) the amount of SS he would have been eligible to receive was around $1200 monthly, but it was reduced to around $500-something a month because he was also receiving his federal pension. Even so, he was grateful for the SS he did get as he had assumed ( misinformed, maybe) that his federal pension disqualified him from receiving any social security payments. So we had had planned our retirement without it.
Just wanted to mention that if your husband is also collecting a pension under the old pre-1983 FRS, ( they didn't pay into SS, but had payroll deductions of around 7-8% into that retirement fund, plus Medicare deductions), and also qualifies to receive SS from other jobs, he might not get all the SS he figured on.
Seems like a good time here to bring up the "Windfall elimination"provision, well known to those federal employees who worked under the pre-1983 federal retirement system, and also worked enough quarters in other jobs to be eligible for social security. Seems if you collect a federal pension, and also earned social security, your SS benefits can be reduced by varying amounts depending on a number of factors.
My husband is an example, he worked for the federal government for 32 yrs, and at other private sector jobs for another 17 years. And many of those private sector job years he worked as an independent contractor, paying into SS/Medicare at a rate of 15.8% ( no employer paid benefits). At the time he finally retired ( he retired from his federal job and then worked another full time job for another 7 yrs after that) the amount of SS he would have been eligible to receive was around $1200 monthly, but it was reduced to around $500-something a month because he was also receiving his federal pension. Even so, he was grateful for the SS he did get as he had assumed ( misinformed, maybe) that his federal pension disqualified him from receiving any social security payments. So we had had planned our retirement without it.
Just wanted to mention that if your husband is also collecting a pension under the old pre-1983 FRS, ( they didn't pay into SS, but had payroll deductions of around 7-8% into that retirement fund, plus Medicare deductions), and also qualifies to receive SS from other jobs, he might not get all the SS he figured on.
Yes, he is under FRS - think he started working at the military base after he got back from Vietnam. We figured it might be a reduced amount, but like you said better than nothing. Should add that he is rated 100% VA disabled, so he gets a pension equal to more than his government pension from that. So, he is doing okay, minus the PTSD and other physical pains from his various war wounds - (2 purple hearts). He was just diagnosed with prostate cancer too. That is something that they trace back to his exposure to Agent Orange.
The minimum wage was established as a 'living' wage. In other words, it was the minimum amount someone would need to be able to afford food, clothing, and housing.
BTW, I don't listen to political hacks or anyone else, for that matter. I'm very much able to form my own opinions.
I don't begrudge people making more money but an across the board increase in the minimum wage only provides a temporary boost to peoples standard of living. When the minimum wage goes up so does the cost of services and products. Businesses, especially small businesses start to replace two workers with one, or they cut hours, benefits are cut. It's a vicious circle, always has been.
What you're bringing up is market interference by the government by action and inaction. And don't bring up scenarios that would never happen in America today. No one would hire a five year old to work in a factory even if there was no law against it. Society has moved way beyond that.
Oh? you must not be aware that Nike has had child labor making its clothing up until at least 2005. Nestle just admitted it uses child slave labor on its cocoa farms and seafood harvesting operations.
Business will use the absolute cheapest means to get what it wants, morality be damned. The only reason these things "don't happen in America" is because the American people got outraged and outlawed it. Outlaw it long enough and societal norms make it repugnant. It used to be legal to beat your wife in the street for misbehaving, and to hang black people from the nearest tree for looking at you the wrong way. Those things were outlawed largely because of court cases, and now these things are extremely rare once it became enforceable by law that you can't do things like that.
This is possible because our democratic system, flawed as it is, makes this possible. For the people living under the rule of dictators in third world economies, not so much.
If the "invisible hand of the free market" actually WORKED, it wouldn't have any national boundaries. as it is, we only see these claims within the borders of well regulated democracies. Outside of that? All bets are off. Take a look at the goddamned horrifying things DeBeers does to control it's diamond business. Everyone knows about it, no one cares to stop it, and it goes on just fine as long as its not within the borders of a democratic society. This is completely contrary to how "the free market" is supposed to work, yet here we are.
Even so, you seem to have glossed over US companies abusing illegal immigrant labor as much as humanly possible WITHIN US borders every chance they can- paying $2 an hour or less and cramming a dozen Mexicans into company dormitories, and silicon valley tech companies lobbying for more H1B Visas, claiming that skilled workers "just weren't here!" when American unemployment was at 10%. Has society not moved past those, as well?
Oh? you must not be aware that Nike has had child labor making its clothing up until at least 2005. Nestle just admitted it uses child slave labor on its cocoa farms and seafood harvesting operations.
Business will use the absolute cheapest means to get what it wants, morality be damned. The only reason these things "don't happen in America" is because the American people got outraged and outlawed it. Outlaw it long enough and societal norms make it repugnant. It used to be legal to beat your wife in the street for misbehaving, and to hang black people from the nearest tree for looking at you the wrong way. Those things were outlawed largely because of court cases, and now these things are extremely rare once it became enforceable by law that you can't do things like that.
This is possible because our democratic system, flawed as it is, makes this possible. For the people living under the rule of dictators in third world economies, not so much.
If the "invisible hand of the free market" actually WORKED, it wouldn't have any national boundaries. as it is, we only see these claims within the borders of well regulated democracies. Outside of that? All bets are off. Take a look at the goddamned horrifying things DeBeers does to control it's diamond business. Everyone knows about it, no one cares to stop it, and it goes on just fine as long as its not within the borders of a democratic society. This is completely contrary to how "the free market" is supposed to work, yet here we are.
Even so, you seem to have glossed over US companies abusing illegal immigrant labor as much as humanly possible WITHIN US borders every chance they can- paying $2 an hour or less and cramming a dozen Mexicans into company dormitories, and silicon valley tech companies lobbying for more H1B Visas, claiming that skilled workers "just weren't here!" when American unemployment was at 10%. Has society not moved past those, as well?
Child labor is not happening in our country. And those illegals working here. That's a failure of our government to secure our borders and to enforce the I-9 requirement. Don't like the H1B? Let your elected officials know you oppose it.
I want to mention that standards of living when one is working full time and gainfully employed can be quite different from what one lives on in retirement.
The financial expectation in retirement need not be anywhere close to what one was living on when gainfully employed full-time.
I also wish posters would stop saying 'public service'. You are government employees. You work in the public sector. You are a public employee. You are not necessarily doing 'public service'. Not all government jobs require altruism or humanitarianism or physical prowess.
Last edited by matisse12; 02-03-2016 at 01:24 PM..
Not everyone can work for the government. To assume that government and the public sector should provide jobs for everyone is absurd.
By your reasoning and argumentation, everyone has an opportunity to work for the government, and if smart, should do so.
By that reasoning, there are enough government jobs to provide employment for every person in the U.S. who happens to want a job in government/public sector.
Government and public sector will never provide enough job openings to fulfill a goal of providing a job for most every person in the U.S or even a large fraction of the people who might like to work in the public sector.
And many government or public sector jobs are FILE CLERKS or PAPER PUSHERS or in that category......not 'dangerous' physically rough positions requiring physical endurance or physical strength or subject to weather.
Last edited by matisse12; 02-03-2016 at 01:31 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
