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Old 02-07-2016, 07:15 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Do you think starving the workers is going to stop automation? That's ridiculous. Anything that can be automated will be automated. We just need to keep the plutocrats from squeezing the remaining workers into starvation by telling them how "lucky" they are to have a job.
This is all-or-nothing hyperbole. Will automation be stopped? No. Will a higher minimum accelerate it? Of course. If you have to pay more for something (including labor), you will use less of it. This is really not a difficult concept to grasp, is it?
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:19 PM
 
13,915 posts, read 7,411,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
$2300 a month is an unlivable income. It borders on abject poverty. It's not about standards, it's about quality of life.
If your housing is paid for, you can live a modest comfortable life on $27,600/year. That's $5K higher than the median Social Security benefit. If you project out 30 years when most won't have any kind of pension, that's better than half of all retirees.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:26 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
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Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
Expectations of people in the U.S. are often way beyond what is needed. And are more in a spoiled, consumer consumption way of thinking.
This ^^^^^ X 1,000,000.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:27 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
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Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
It is high time to open up the 401k to all private sector employees. No waiting periods. Contract employees eligible. Part timers eligible. And make investment advisors compete for the business.
Yes, absolutely.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:40 PM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,450,730 times
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GeoffD, I live in a rental apartment.....no housing paid for and never has been.....and I still have a comfortable enjoyable retirement.

But I still agree with you that a modest comfortable retirement can be lived on $27,600 per year.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:41 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
Reputation: 24810
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
The problem I have with people who believe in the public good is that they always want to take from those who work and give it to those who won't work.
Agreed, but it goes, much, much further than that.

This communitarian ethic sounds good but can (and is) used/abused to justify just about any action taken to centralize power and control (political and economic).

This woman is a liberal Democrat and even she sees the danger of this way of thinking. She talks about the dangers of communitarianism starting at 8:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEHWsdimVO4

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 02-07-2016 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,602 posts, read 1,892,707 times
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Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I seriously doubt that your friend could get that large a public pension from only working 10 years as a classroom teacher, and part-time at that. He likely either held other public sector jobs or he was actually an administrator rather than a classroom teacher for at least part of his time working for the school district.
I once considered teaching after retiring from my military career. A 10 year career is what I ran the numbers on. In Illinois in a rural school district, starting at an entry level salary, 10 years would yield about a $500 per month pension. Plus under the SS' Windfall provision, my SS would've been cut. The net return on the pension/SS would've been about a $300 a month gain over my military retired pay and SS alone. It wasn't worth 10 years of effort IMO.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,602 posts, read 1,892,707 times
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Originally Posted by BellaDL View Post
matisse12,

I agree that one can enjoy a scaled down life in retirement. I also agree that many people in this country are living fine on $25K or $30K a year or even less.

Everybody is entitled to his or her opinion. I do not see any problems with posters who think that they need a lot more than $30K in their retirement. IMO, there is nothing absolute about what is the minimum amount that one THINKs that one NEEDs to retire comfortably. Everything in life is RELATIVE! If a person has enjoyed an affluent lifestyle and has the means to continue the same standard of living in retirement, why should he/she scale down to live within the means defined by other??????

Of course, you are free to think that the people who needs more are being grandiose or flamboyant. It's their life, their wealth, they can do whatever they want with what they have. If a person has grandiose wishes or desires which could never be fulfilled, it's their problems. IMO, why should anyone want to shake a finger at them and tell them to stop day dreaming or stop torturing themselves with unfulfilled desires ??

Why not just live and let live??
The big difference, whether one owns outright, has a mortgage, or rents, is the variance in housing costs. Sometimes I think members here who live in high housing costs areas, don't know, or don't want to believe the low costs of housing in other areas. The end result is that many seniors of modest means, don't need the government subsidized housing that is often discussed here. If they want to go on some 5 year waiting list in some megalopolis, that's their choice. But it's not the only option.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:42 PM
 
13,915 posts, read 7,411,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
GeoffD, I live in a rental apartment.....no housing paid for and never has been.....and I still have a comfortable enjoyable retirement.

But I still agree with you that a modest comfortable retirement can be lived on $27,600 per year.
I think it depends on local housing costs. When I wrote that, I was thinking what a 1 bedroom apartment costs in my region. It would make a pretty big dent in $27,600. I just looked it up... The median rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in the United States is $769. It's certainly doable at that price.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:57 PM
 
825 posts, read 564,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Not to nitpick but I've lived and worked in Europe. Food really is double. Automobiles are about 1.6x. It's not "10% or 20%" more. If you earn US $100K, your effective tax rate in Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, and the Netherlands is 42% to 45%. There is no such thing as itemized deductions for things like mortgage interest. You earn 6 figures and your effective disposable income after paying for essentials is half what we're used to in the United States. Imagine paying New York City taxes and having everything cost twice as much.
It would be well worth it, IMO, to have complete peace of mind about medical expenses and retirement pension. Not to mention much cheaper university educations for one's children.

I wouldn't bother owning a car in most areas I've lived, studied, and travelled in Europe. That definitely is not worth the expense. But you don't need one there.
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