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Hello BungalowDweller - I understand your situation very well; I was born and raised in the western suburbs of Chicago, and I had relatives living on the south side of Chicago and southern suburbs while I was growing up. Since you both have about five years of work until you retire, I would not move too far away for now. Yes, I would move, but not too far. You need to keep your commutes to your jobs convenient. I would look at properties in Brookfield, which is a nice town with older architecture, including some beautiful bungalows. Maybe it is time to downsize? You may even want to consider a condo! If you want to really cut expenses, there are some nice 55+ apartments in Downers Grovefor less than $100K. They are not in the downtown, you will still need a car. But they are out there. Just get busy and get on Zillow or Trulia and look around. Then, when the weather is good, take a Sunday drive and check out some new neighborhoods. It sounds like it is time for a new adventure. You will be okay, BungalowDweller!!
I wasn't referring to people - of ANY race or ethnicity - who are "middle-class and indistinguishable" from anyone else. I was referring to people who, as I said, are pulling down the property values and endangering a neighborhood's stability via behaviors; again, of ANY race or ethnicity. I suspect you wouldn't want to live next door to such folks, either, and in fact don't, or you wouldn't be making the useless suggestion to get friendly with them. Been there, done that, got out. Suspect you haven't.
The OP didn't say that they were behaving badly. The OP said they were pulling down property values because they were Mexicans. You automatically assumed that they were behaving badly because they were Mexicans. That's what constitutes bigotry ... or racism: deciding that people are bad actors simply because of their race or their ethnicity.
Or maybe white Chicagoans just don't give it a try. The sad fact is that there's a long history of ethnic and racial segregation in the cities of the Great Lakes area, and that segregation continues somewhat into the present day, although younger people, especially transplants, are breaking those barriers. There have been a couple of studies that noted this phenomenon. Having lived in Buffalo, NY, for 20 years as well as in other cities, I'm also speaking from personal experience.
Just because people are Latinos or Blacks doesn't make them criminals or thugs. The OP didn't say anything about crime or vandalism or anything like that, only that her neighborhood was becoming Mexican. How is a hard-working Latino family significantly different from a hard-working white family of about the same income? How is a college educated Black middle class couple significantly different from a college educated white middle class couple? Trash be trash, and it comes in every ethnicity and race.
Thank you for your comments, Linda. I didn't mention crime or vandalism because my post is titled "Home in an undesirable neighborhood" and I believe that says it all.
Over the 20 plus years I've lived in my home it has been targeted often by my "neighbors". I've had the garage graffitied, my American flags stolen twice from my front porch when flying on national holidays, had plantings ripped up or stolen, had restaurant grease poured all over my front porch because I had the nerve to ask someone double-parked in front of my house to turn down the blaring tejano music, etc, etc.
Growing up in the city of Chicago I've certainly "given it a try". I've watched my town go from 80% white, 20% Latino to almost 100% Latino. My problem isn't color-----it's culture.
Frankly I'm tired of those who live 6 families to a 1000 sq ft house. Those who throw trash all over the streets. Those who gang-bang. Those whose every second word is a curse word. Those who throw parties blasting music that can be heard 6 city blocks away. Those who smash car windows of parked cars for "fun". Those who trash the local schools. Those who rape and robe and steal and terrify the rest. And these same types have told me in the past that it's their "culture" to do as they please.
For the most part my current neighbors appear to be decent, hardworking people. I treat them respectfully but have learned not to expect the same.
You asked what the difference was between working class whites and Latinos. All I can speak to is my own life experience which may not count for much but I can assure you that there are GREAT differences in behavior. Again, it is culture, not race. In Chicago proper an Italian neighborhood was VERY different from a German, Irish, Greek or Polish neighborhood. Many older urban people like myself grew up in ethnic communities where our parents and grandparents could read newspapers in their native tongues, buy their specialized foods and attend churches where the services were conducted in those languages. We didn't view the world as black and white. We didn't get our world-view from being white. We saw ourselves as American-Irish, etc or just plain American! Yes, we were in communities that were segregated according to race and ethnicity but we were SAFE. There was NONE of the crime and mayhem that is an every day occurrence today.
I have lived in integrated urban communities for over 43 years and all I can say is that as I grow old I need to live where there is a sense of friendliness and a sense of neighborliness. That is gone from my town now. Unfortunately I feel like I live in a foreign land surrounded by those with entirely different values who hold my values in contempt. Since I'm not going to change my values it's time for me to go. I wish all those who live around me the very best for themselves and those they love but we have no commonality.
In my opinion, forced integration has failed spectacularly and will never work because people have a right of free association. I've done my share as a neighbor, teacher and church member. It's "Me Time" now. And it's time for the next generation to carry the ball.
Exactly, and thank you; it's CULTURE, along with an unwillingness to assimilate, and those differences constitute "bad behavior" by (typical) American standards. Again, walk a mile in our shoes before you preach to us.
Last edited by otterhere; 02-09-2016 at 03:06 PM..
OP, I'll simply tell you real life story that happened in our family.
My grand aunt owned a townhome in Phila. Since early 50s. Paid it for. She also had great memories about how great times neighborhood had, when people will bring tables and chairs out into the street every night, bring food, sing, dance, have great times.
Then one family moved in.
Suddenly, neighbors started moving out and more of the new ones moved in.
In no time, she was the only person left for several blocks around that didn't move.
When I cam there in 1990 to visit her, area looked like trash. Burnt, vandalized houses. Trash everywhere. Her neighbor was selling crack and knock on her door will start at 5 am. Thought was, aunt stayed untouched only because her townhome was wall to wall with that drug dealer and they didn't touch her. But sure enough, about 5-6 years down the road her house was robbed and they took things that had no value - mostly ethnic craft.
She basically abandoned the house and moved to a church owned living facility.
That's how it sometimes happens. She had about less than a year window to sell the place - missed it, boom, done.
Or maybe white Chicagoans just don't give it a try. The sad fact is that there's a long history of ethnic and racial segregation in the cities of the Great Lakes area, and that segregation continues somewhat into the present day, although younger people, especially transplants, are breaking those barriers. There have been a couple of studies that noted this phenomenon. Having lived in Buffalo, NY, for 20 years as well as in other cities, I'm also speaking from personal experience.
I was expecting to get such a response immediately.
It is a lot more complicated than that. For the record, my wife was the president of the HOA and I had over 300 employees who were Latino so we are not bashful people.
First, there is the issue of contact. Many of the homeowners of Mexican descent AVOIDED any contact with their Anglo neighbors. My wife, when distributing documents for the HOA, would knock on the door at times when the residents when they were home only to find the knocks ignored. She had far better success by asking the local children to get their parents while they were outside playing. I do not know whether it is a language issue (my wife speaks Spanish), an immigration issue (many did not have the proper papers to be in the US legally), or whether they knew they were not in compliance with HOA rules as to how many people were under the roof.
Second, many Mexican workers at the plant (all with proper Green cards) did not want to assimilate to US culture. It was their intent to work as long as possible in the US, save as much as possible and build a large home in Mexico for retirement. We found that participation in all retirement plans among these groups was pretty minimal. Ditto on company functions and the like. We would sponsor a picnic for the entire company and the Mexican employees in this group (40-50% of the Latino employees) wanted a separate picnic.
Third, there is a certain faction of the Hispanic community that want things very separate. Some of the suburban Catholic parishes are actually two separate parishes under one roof. There is no attempt to unify the groups into one church.
Interesting in that some still maintain owning a home already makes you an elite.
I've had some luck buying into up and coming areas... even it took 20 years to turn around... it can be impossible to predict the future...
Bottom line is if you would like to move and have the means... do it.
I live in Oakland California and for decades well meaning people have been telling me to move... currently, Oakland is one of the strongest markets in the country... much to the surprise of those that wrote it off...
I sincerely thank EVERYONE for contributing their advice, life experiences and knowledge to my post. You've given me plenty of good feedback and ideas.
In the final analysis when discussing retirement and optimal conditions, comfort is a primary consideration. Like ULTRARUNNER ( I was a marathoner 35 years ago, running in mens' shoes because womens hadn't been created yet! I SALUTE you!) I have chosen to live in up and coming areas long before they "turned". I was happy in them and honestly was never bothered.
It's different as one ages because the ability to physically protect oneself tends to diminish over time.
I've been an urban person my entire life. It's a big decision to leave a town I've lived in over 20 years.
The "change" in my town-----racial, economic, cultural and that of the neighboring city of Chicago is THE primary factor in my decision to seek your opinions. It saddens me to say that my town is undesirable. In decline. And my decision is in no way based upon anyone's color or ethnic background. It's based on quality of life.
What's happening to you reminds me of what's happening in Germany and Sweden with the mass immigration of Muslims from Syria, it's the culture that's doing the ethnic cleansing of what used to be good neighborhoods (or countries).
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