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Old 02-20-2016, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,953,845 times
Reputation: 6718

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I have had housekeepers who were born and raised in countries like Belize and Peru (some were housekeepers here because they didn't have the necessary language skills to continue in their original lines of work/professions - for example - one was a school teacher in Lima) . They all became US citizens - and - except for visiting elderly parents (who are now dead) - they have zero interest in returning to their places of origin (not even for a vacation).

Also - it seems like half of Puerto Rico is moving to Florida (legally) these days. And - for every legal Puerto Rican - there seem to be 2-3 illegals trying to get here/stay here from other countries in central and south America. There are similar legal/illegal immigration trends in other parts of the US from other parts of the world.

I'd ask myself - if these countries are so attractive - why are the people who live there so interested in coming here?

I think one important consideration that has been glossed over is countries like Malaysia are - at best - second world countries. Many of which have issues with reliable electricity - safe sources of drinking water - pollution - etc. Some countries have been absolutely devastated by the recent collapse in oil prices:

The revolution at bay | The Economist

We tend to know little or nothing about these countries. Even the basics. Like how their economies and their currencies and their political systems work. I am probably as ignorant as most people. I didn't know before I started writing this message that Thailand is now ruled by a junta that overthrew the government a couple of years ago:

Junta-ruled Thailand flirts with Russia as U.S. ties cool | Reuters

I don't think most Americans are familiar with visiting - much less living - in second world countries. It is a concept that should be given a thorough test drive before seriously considering anything permanent. We were thinking of taking a side trip to Malaysia when we were in Singapore a few years ago. But decided not to (didn't want to take all the necessary second world country food precautions). Note that Singapore is an extremely modern first world country. But it certainly isn't cheap. When you come right down to it - most modern first world countries aren't.

Of course - all of this is separate from the legal issues (ranging from visas to who can buy property/what extra taxes/fees you might have to pay as a foreigner) - and issues like access to/cost of health care for people 65+ on Medicare. Robyn
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:28 AM
 
Location: SW US
2,224 posts, read 2,041,183 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post

I'd ask myself - if these countries are so attractive - why are the people who live there so interested in coming here?
Because they need jobs and can't find them at home. This is not an issue for expat retirees.

There are ways around power outages and water purification.
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Old 02-20-2016, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Land of the Great Bears
3,498 posts, read 1,929,182 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
.. We were thinking of taking a side trip to Malaysia when we were in Singapore a few years ago. But decided not to (didn't want to take all the necessary second world country food precautions)..
No precautions needed, other than don't drink the tap water.
On my way back from there, I met a young lady in Taiwan who had been travelling all over SE Asia for months, eating local food everywhere without any problems.
She did finally get food poisoning-from an American fast food restaurant at Bangkok airport.
Yup, she got sick on our flight, in the seat next to me.
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Miraflores
787 posts, read 896,847 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Also - it seems like half of Puerto Rico is moving to Florida (legally) these days. And - for every legal Puerto Rican - there seem to be 2-3 illegals trying to get here/stay here from other countries in central and south America. There are similar legal/illegal immigration trends in other parts of the US from other parts of the world.
Here in Peru which has a large expat population, the majority are illegals from the USA and Canada. It is has caught the attention of the government and strict rules will be implemented this year including deportation and a 5 year ban on entering Peru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br_Wli3iCoc
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,953,845 times
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Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
Because they need jobs and can't find them at home. This is not an issue for expat retirees.

There are ways around power outages and water purification.
So you want to live in a country where middle class people can't get jobs? The proverbial living like a king on a pauper's budget in a country where most people are living like garbage?

I don't know about anyone else - but even though I am upper middle class and conservative - I want to live in a country where the people working for me in various capacities are treated decently. And not like slaves or servants. YMMV. Robyn
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,953,845 times
Reputation: 6718
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineprince View Post
Here in Peru which has a large expat population, the majority are illegals from the USA and Canada. It is has caught the attention of the government and strict rules will be implemented this year including deportation and a 5 year ban on entering Peru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br_Wli3iCoc
Interesting. Why would people from the US and Canada try to enter Peru illegally?

My housekeeper from Peru would be amused seeing this. Note that pretty much her whole family is here now (brothers/sisters/cousins). Her son graduated University of Florida Medical School a few years back - and is doing great. As are her other children. She and her husband - both teachers in Peru - sacrificed a lot coming here to make better lives for their kids. But they've been paid back a lot. Much like my immigrant grandparents got paid back when it came to their children/grandchildren.

I very much admire people who uproot their whole lives to improve the lives of their kids and generations to to come - while having setbacks in their own lives (as long as they do it legally).

So what's the case to be made for people from the US who just want to live cheap in a place where people can't earn a living wage? Robyn
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Land of the Great Bears
3,498 posts, read 1,929,182 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
So what's the case to be made for people from the US who just want to live cheap in a place where people can't earn a living wage? Robyn
I wouldn't assume that all of them are unprincipled opportunists.
Maybe they just want to retire somewhere that is more affordable than the US, given their limited nest egg.

There's no obligation to live like a king while abroad, even if you have the resources to do so, and opportunities for contributing to the local community, either financially or otherwise, may exist.

The recently deceased Doug Tompkins is a good example. He lived modestly in Chile, using his wealth to buy vast tracts of wilderness. Then he gave it back to the people, which was his intention all along.

Rebel With a Cause: Yvon Chouinard on the Passing of His Lifelong Friend, Doug Tompkins - MensJournal.com
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Miraflores
787 posts, read 896,847 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
So you want to live in a country where middle class people can't get jobs? The proverbial living like a king on a pauper's budget in a country where most people are living like garbage?

I don't know about anyone else - but even though I am upper middle class and conservative - I want to live in a country where the people working for me in various capacities are treated decently. And not like slaves or servants. YMMV. Robyn
I am not sure what country you are referring to (Belize or Peru)?

My Nanny/Housekeeper/Driver/Doorman are all quite content with what I pay them and on a pretty much daily basis I will chip in and do some of their tasks with the exception of the Driver, although I am more apt to hop on the bus(frowned upon in my social strata) if it goes within a few blocks of where I am going.

The middle class here and in most of SA has exploded in recent years and with one of the worlds best performing economies these past 15 years have attracted many professionals from Europe (Spain) which in turn has upped the ante for locals who have gone back to Uni for master's and doctorates, which further lifts the country up.

Yes, the old money here do not treat servants well, but I refuse to accept that aspect of my "host country" and will treat servants the same way I treated them when I was living in the USA!

P.S. We no longer have a cook, so I either prepare lunch, get takeout or bring them to the restaurant with me and my Son's.
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Washington State
18,637 posts, read 9,633,288 times
Reputation: 15873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I have had housekeepers who were born and raised in countries like Belize and Peru (some were housekeepers here because they didn't have the necessary language skills to continue in their original lines of work/professions - for example - one was a school teacher in Lima) . They all became US citizens - and - except for visiting elderly parents (who are now dead) - they have zero interest in returning to their places of origin (not even for a vacation).

Also - it seems like half of Puerto Rico is moving to Florida (legally) these days. And - for every legal Puerto Rican - there seem to be 2-3 illegals trying to get here/stay here from other countries in central and south America. There are similar legal/illegal immigration trends in other parts of the US from other parts of the world.

I'd ask myself - if these countries are so attractive - why are the people who live there so interested in coming here?

I think one important consideration that has been glossed over is countries like Malaysia are - at best - second world countries. Many of which have issues with reliable electricity - safe sources of drinking water - pollution - etc. Some countries have been absolutely devastated by the recent collapse in oil prices:

The revolution at bay | The Economist

We tend to know little or nothing about these countries. Even the basics. Like how their economies and their currencies and their political systems work. I am probably as ignorant as most people. I didn't know before I started writing this message that Thailand is now ruled by a junta that overthrew the government a couple of years ago:

Junta-ruled Thailand flirts with Russia as U.S. ties cool | Reuters

I don't think most Americans are familiar with visiting - much less living - in second world countries. It is a concept that should be given a thorough test drive before seriously considering anything permanent. We were thinking of taking a side trip to Malaysia when we were in Singapore a few years ago. But decided not to (didn't want to take all the necessary second world country food precautions). Note that Singapore is an extremely modern first world country. But it certainly isn't cheap. When you come right down to it - most modern first world countries aren't.

Of course - all of this is separate from the legal issues (ranging from visas to who can buy property/what extra taxes/fees you might have to pay as a foreigner) - and issues like access to/cost of health care for people 65+ on Medicare. Robyn
I don't really disagree but to say that most immigrants that leave Mexico and South American countries do so for better economic opportunities although in Central America, they are also leaving very violent countries as well. As a place to retire, after living n Peru for 16 months (legally), I could retire there and have a very nice life at much less cost...you would be sacrificing some 1st world standards and amenities but could live a much more extravagant life at the same cost. The reason I won't do so is family in USA and I don't need to live that cheap in retirement.

About Malaysia, they are close to offering 1st World amenities and it is much less expensive and the food is outstanding there, so I don't think you need to have worried about going there.

Regarding Thailand, there is no reason for us not to have great relations with the Thais, I blame our current administration for creating an unnesessary adversarial relationship. I know several Americans retired there quite happily.
The thing to remember is that as you add regulations, codes, standards, etc. you are adding cost that some could and do live without.

Last edited by Tall Traveler; 02-21-2016 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,953,845 times
Reputation: 6718
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineprince View Post
I am not sure what country you are referring to (Belize or Peru)?

My Nanny/Housekeeper/Driver/Doorman are all quite content with what I pay them and on a pretty much daily basis I will chip in and do some of their tasks with the exception of the Driver, although I am more apt to hop on the bus(frowned upon in my social strata) if it goes within a few blocks of where I am going.

The middle class here and in most of SA has exploded in recent years and with one of the worlds best performing economies these past 15 years have attracted many professionals from Europe (Spain) which in turn has upped the ante for locals who have gone back to Uni for master's and doctorates, which further lifts the country up.

Yes, the old money here do not treat servants well, but I refuse to accept that aspect of my "host country" and will treat servants the same way I treated them when I was living in the USA!

P.S. We no longer have a cook, so I either prepare lunch, get takeout or bring them to the restaurant with me and my Son's.
Well Belize was a country where pay was poor. Peru/Lima had crime and similar issues (at least back a ways). The specifics aren't important. Because there are lots of countries - and countries change over time. For example - I think Costa Rica was a pretty idyllic place when we were there perhaps 25 years ago. Didn't think twice about walking alone on remote beaches then. It seems to be less idyllic now.

I think the more important issue is what a place is like today - and what it might conceivably be like 10-20 years down the road. Which is hard to tell - even in a country where you've lived most of your life. Much less one about which you know next to nothing. Like I've said previously - a lot of research would be in order. Robyn
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