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Old 02-21-2016, 03:29 PM
 
72,069 posts, read 72,068,214 times
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you are correct nyc is not representative of the whole us but it does make the statement that very few seniors live in public or subsidized housing false since a few million right here already do . we have long time tenants in rent stabilized apartments paying below market rents , we have affordable housing developments for folks below certain middle class incomes . we have 80/20 special housing projects as well as low income city projects .

we have not even considered seniors getting section 8 subsidy . so i wouldn't say very few , we are only one city but other city's offer similar services

 
Old 02-21-2016, 06:02 PM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,954,977 times
Reputation: 3906
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodyforlife99 View Post
In no way am I questioning the validity of your sources, but rather submitting that it's all in the phrasing as to whether the glass is half empty or half full. Ultimately the bigger picture is more important. Simply put, we are not a nation of savers regardless of age. No matter what age category you look at, the results are extremely unimpressive. Comparing one poor performing group to another, and saying one is better in no way validates the second group. You are simply saying they are less unimpressive
FWIW, even WITH saving the max (in my case, $24K per year) it's discouraging. With the markets the way they have been for the past couple years, my balance is flat or declining REGARDLESS.


Really demoralizing. I could just have sprung for that vacation in St. Tropez last year. Instead, like an idiot, I keep plunking down good cash into my Roth 401(K).


In the event we ever meet in person, you all have my permission - witnessed by an impartial audience of thousands here on C-D - to kick me in the rear end without proximate causation.


LOL! Who is dying to meet me, lolol!!! Best, Jane


PS - of course I am all ears should anybody want to go out on a limb and tell me I did the "right" thing. Best, Jane
 
Old 02-21-2016, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,668 posts, read 4,279,614 times
Reputation: 9987
Total garbage.
It's not what you make, it's what you spend.
I live below my means, have no mortgage, drive an older car, and in another 9 months will have no debt at all.

You don't need 2 million $$ in order to be able to retire.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,877 posts, read 4,990,732 times
Reputation: 17400
Of course Fidelity would say you need $2M. Their biz is managing money. They exist for the commish.

To retire you need an income you can count on, Medicare, a place to live and no debt.

Very few people retire with $2M saved.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 06:44 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 2,082,431 times
Reputation: 5725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Of course Fidelity would say you need $2M. Their biz is managing money. They exist for the commish.

To retire you need an income you can count on, Medicare, a place to live and no debt.

Very few people retire with $2M saved.


Well said
 
Old 02-21-2016, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,782,140 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Of course Fidelity would say you need $2M. Their biz is managing money. They exist for the commish.

To retire you need an income you can count on, Medicare, a place to live and no debt.

Very few people retire with $2M saved.
Yep. We should always take the source into account. Beware of the people who have something for sale.
They might be telling the truth but it's always suspect.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 07:26 PM
 
14,052 posts, read 7,490,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
35.6 percent of all renter households consisting of low-income seniors with no children at home receive federal rental assistance.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/perio...ighlight1.html

And that statistic is measuring just those with low enough incomes to qualify for assistance. There are millions more seniors who still live on smaller amounts of money in retirement, but not small enough monetary amounts to be involved in subsidized housing or they do not wish to apply. The great majority of seniors wish to age in place anyway (also stated in the cited article)

(GeoffD, I was discussing, and definitely not ranting. I do not 'rant'.)

mathjack107, NYC is not representative of the whole U.S. I understand your point though. By the way, I am very familiar with NYC having lived there, and visited afterwards about 50 times.
That's only Federal. Where I live, we have zero Section 202 housing. The state has been forcing developers to build privately funded elderly housing units as part of getting the approval to do "regular" developments. In my town, there are 319 elderly housing units committed for the next decade in addition to the units that have been built over the last 40 years. This might be a red state/blue state thing but it's how things are done anywhere I've lived. For the most part, towns and the residents of towns get to pick between low income housing and elderly housing. They pretty much universally pick elderly housing since low income housing destroys the school system since they're mostly special needs kids at $20K+ per student. The elderly program costs nothing like that.

Where I live, you can't possibly afford housing on a $12,000 Social Security check or even a $20,000 Social Security check. My town has a very active elderly affairs department and is fairly on top of making sure people aren't homeless when they run out of money. The suburbs are greying rapidly and it's become a very big problem.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Grove City, Ohio
10,149 posts, read 12,420,655 times
Reputation: 14013
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
The key to retirement is to not have any debt or large monthly payments (mortgages, cars, etc).

I think 2mm is way more than a person would need. If the average person lives 25 years during retirement, that would come to having 80,000 per year for retirement. Most people don't make that during their working years.

My goal is to have a paid off house, a paid off new car, no credit card or student loan debt, and a LTC policy when I retire. I am generously estimating my needs at $30k a year for 25 years (about 750k).
Sounds reasonable.

Very close to where I live:

Median Household Income $39,635
Average Household Income $50,208

New York it isn't but with a paid for home, no debts and a new car a married couple aged 65 can live comfortably on $30,000 and very nicely middle class on $40,000 to $45,000.

$50,208 is $965/week.

According to paycheck city with a $965 gross the weekly take home would be $738 for $38,376 which one would receive with a monthly combined ss benefit of $3,200/month. If all you have is social security you're not going to be subject to federal taxes and in Georgia all retirement income is exempt from state income taxes.

Our property taxes are laughably low.

I see it trumpeted how we need $1 million to $2 million to retire and I wonder what planet those numbers come from.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 07:32 PM
 
14,052 posts, read 7,490,249 times
Reputation: 25704
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you are correct nyc is not representative of the whole us but it does make the statement that very few seniors live in public or subsidized housing false since a few million right here already do . we have long time tenants in rent stabilized apartments paying below market rents , we have affordable housing developments for folks below certain middle class incomes . we have 80/20 special housing projects as well as low income city projects .

we have not even considered seniors getting section 8 subsidy . so i wouldn't say very few , we are only one city but other city's offer similar services
I suspect if you live in a zero service red state, the elderly who run out of money are simply cast aside. The Ted Cruz universe. That's certainly not how it works in the Northeast.
 
Old 02-21-2016, 07:59 PM
 
14,052 posts, read 7,490,249 times
Reputation: 25704
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Sounds reasonable.

Very close to where I live:

Median Household Income $39,635
Average Household Income $50,208

New York it isn't but with a paid for home, no debts and a new car a married couple aged 65 can live comfortably on $30,000 and very nicely middle class on $40,000 to $45,000.
Right. Now let's do the math assuming you're a late-20's Millennial where you're told that Social Security won't exist and it's highly likely that Medicare will be really lousy and the supplemental to top it up to reasonable coverage is $20K per year.

In our new economic reality, it's tough to assume you can pull more than 4% per year out of your retirement portfolio. This is tax-deferred savings so you have to pay income tax on it. In many/most states, you're also on the hook for state income tax on it. There's no such thing as a defined benefit pension so it's your 401(k) and nothing else.

If you assume health care will be $20K out of pocket, instead of $45K, you need $60K in after-tax money. You need about $75K to have that $45K in after-tax income. With $2 million, pulling out 4% is $80K. It sounds about right if you're assuming you don't have a Social Security check coming in and that Medicare and supplemental premiums will be much higher for "rich" people showing $75K in income.

If you change your assumptions so Social Security is kept as-is and Medicare is kept as-is, you are completely correct. That's not what Millennials are being told and it would be crazy to rely on it because huge cuts and means testing are coming as the population ages and we have more and more wealth and income stratification.
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