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Old 02-29-2016, 07:13 AM
 
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Mightyqueen, you hit upon several interesting points. Many of which I do not understand.


I am not sure the vegan thing is all that new. Many young women go through a vegan phase and that has been occurring for generations. My daughter did that for 10 years. Many of her friends went through the same phase and almost all are now eating meat. I do think we have seen a trend towards eating healthier and getting exercise. Many young people are getting the message that poor food choices and overeating have caused a great many health problems and are equal if not worse than smoking. Many of us older people have also gotten the message.


Communal living also seems to have become more popular. I think partly because Millennials are getting married later if at all. Many also started out when jobs were not available. It was either share and get by cheaply or continue to live at home.


I do think you are also right about more travel abroad. I had little opportunity to travel or at least that is what I believed. Now I see my daughter and her friends traveling frequently. I have one niece who is not yet 30 and has spent most of the last 5 years in the worst areas of Africa. She is working with the UN in improving "sustainable" farming in remote poverty stricken areas of Africa. It seems strange that a spoiled rich California white girl is teaching peasants to farm. Who would have guessed. In any case, I do believe more Millennials are looking for alternative lifestyles. The traditional suburban life is vanishing. Marriage and child rearing also seem to have declined substantially. Religion also seems to be taking a hit. Once kids become educated, travel and see different outlooks many have difficulty living by "beliefs" rather than knowledge and reason.


In any case, I cannot begin to predict what will happen with the Millennials. The hippie generation died extremely rapidly after the Vietnam War ended. I wonder about the future of the Millennials when they age, become more prosperous, get married and have kids.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
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I think one of the biggest psychological changes is the cynicism that younger people now view retirement and old age with. My grandparents are Silents and that generation seemed to view retirement as a well-earned rest, BUT there was also little to no question that they were going to get there, enjoy it, and they weren't cynical about it. Older Boomers have views similar to silent, but some got slapped hard in the Great Recession and were basically forced out.


I think the younger you go, the more cynical and pessimistic the views of old age and retirement become. As a somewhat older Millenial turning 30 this year, I don't have much confidence in SS being around in anything close to its current form, nor do I have much faith in political stability and good governance. IMO, right now we are at a pivot point as critical as the end of the Cold War, and maybe a period as unstable as the 1960s. Furthermore, I don't have any faith in the political establishment to make the right call, nor am I very confident that outsiders like Trump or Sanders can chart a better course.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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^Thanks for your post, jrkliny. I think the difference I see in the vegan thing with her and this generation is that it is not just about the ethical treatment of animals but also because of their stand that food production practices are destroying the environment/planet. She went vegetarian when she first studied abroad in China 5 years ago, but I think that was mostly self-preservation lol. They eat some things we wouldn't consider. She started to eat meat again when she returned. This time she took on a vegan lifestyle while still in the U.S.

I don't know, of course, what she will be like in the future. She will not have children of her own because she has never wanted or liked kids but also because there is a medical reason for her not to become pregnant. She has mentioned the possibility of adopting a foreign child "someday". Who knows.

Anyway, it does me good to see these kids caring about their world and rejecting materialism, at least for now.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
....... As a somewhat older Millenial turning 30 this year, I don't have much confidence in SS being around in anything close to its current form, nor do I have much faith in political stability and good governance. IMO, right now we are at a pivot point as critical as the end of the Cold War, and maybe a period as unstable as the 1960s. Furthermore, I don't have any faith in the political establishment to make the right call, nor am I very confident that outsiders like Trump or Sanders can chart a better course.
Unfortunately, I think regardless of age, we all share concerns about the future of our government. This is the worse I have seen for a Presidential election. We have some scary people running: right wingers who want to interject their religious beliefs into government, a con artist who does not have a clue, a left winger who wants a great socialistic society but has no idea how to achieve it. Then we have Hillary with her elitist attitude, failed policies and even worse waiting to be indicted for exposing top secret communications.


I cannot see any outcome that is going to work or help fix 8 years of inaction and another previous 8 of stupidity.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
So why is it that we work harder and harder and have less to show? We don't have long afternoon breaks or month long vacations or 20 holidays/year.

We still cannot afford to retire, to provide citizens with healthcare, day care or a reasonable safety net for retirement.
This is what I've been saying. We are being told to hand over our money because we have to take care of everyone else but people are forgetting that they need to put aside and prepare for themselves. When I realized this long, long ago, I changed course, stopped listening to "the should" even though I still had to work within current mind set of everyone else and started preparing. I'm glad I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Where is our money going? We seem to have plenty to become involved in politics of every nation in the world. We seem to afford to spend hundreds of billions in the middle east. We have wasted enough in Afghanistan to send every citizen of that country to Harvard. We spend billions on the Egyptian army, tens of billions in Korea, huge amounts on homeland security. We even pay bribes to Iran in the hopes that they will stop building nuclear weapons and stop supporting terrorists. Instead of trying to make the rest of the world follow our political system, maybe we need to make it work first.
Obviously we can not control how the politicians spend our money and there are too many people who are fine with it if it benefits them. We shouldn't be volunteering to give more. In the mean time you have to gain control (save and invest) what you do with what is left.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Unfortunately, I think regardless of age, we all share concerns about the future of our government. This is the worse I have seen for a Presidential election. We have some scary people running: right wingers who want to interject their religious beliefs into government, a con artist who does not have a clue, a left winger who wants a great socialistic society but has no idea how to achieve it. Then we have Hillary with her elitist attitude, failed policies and even worse waiting to be indicted for exposing top secret communications.

I cannot see any outcome that is going to work or help fix 8 years of inaction and another previous 8 of stupidity.

The younger people are going to have live with the consequences of the government for longer. Revenue is going to have to be raised, benefits are going to have to be cut, the tax base broadened, or some combination of all this to shore the welfare programs up. There is no political will to do this - even if there was, the average person is overtaxed as it stands now.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:06 AM
 
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^^ I'm not going to comment on the political names mentioned but:

-- I have no idea how long SS will stay as it is. Lawmakers changed the rules about file and suspend and made it effective in just months.
-- I totally agree: we are at a pivot point as critical as the end of the Cold War, and maybe a period as unstable as the 1960s
-- I'm not confident politicians will make the right call
-- I'm not confident the AMERICAN PEOPLE will make the right call on electing the right people who could "solve" it. (this year or later, ever")

On one hand -- technology isn't new… look at the light bulb or telephone. Hell look at how discovering electricity revolutionized things.
On the other -- competition from the rest of the world I'd say -- IS MUCH different from previous generations.
On one hand -- America has always been "capitalist."
On the other -- some would argue that these ARE INDEED different challenges than we've faced before. (economically and geopolitically…and that makes all the difference.
So then I ask well how many hands do we have….

Some days I'm pessimistic, some days optimistic.

Last edited by selhars; 02-29-2016 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
This is what I've been saying. We are being told to hand over our money because we have to take care of everyone else but people are forgetting that they need to put aside and prepare for themselves. When I realized this long, long ago, I changed course, stopped listening to "the should" even though I still had to work within current mind set of everyone else and started preparing. I'm glad I did.

Obviously we can not control how the politicians spend our money and there are too many people who are fine with it if it benefits them. We shouldn't be volunteering to give more. In the mean time you have to gain control (save and invest) what you do with what is left.
One of the big problems is that few people seem to know or care how much $$ it takes to keep government functioning at a stable, solvent level. Here in Indiana, the government is running a ~$200 million surplus with a couple billion in reserves.

Government services in the state of Indiana are minimal. Many significant roads are in a state of decay. This isn't a generous welfare or service providing state where it's easy to see the money at work (even if the state is in debt) - I wonder where it all goes. Even with the minimal level of services we receive, we pay property taxes to the state government (localities can add on additional tax, as Indianapolis does), a state income tax at 3.4%, variable county level income taxes (1%-3% on top of the state levy), sales tax at 7%, reasonably high state gas taxes, high vehicle registration fees, etc. Maybe the money is being grossly misallocated, I don't know, but we are taxed to death in this supposedly conservative state, and we're only putting a little bit back.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:16 AM
 
6,220 posts, read 4,718,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The younger people are going to have live with the consequences of the government for longer. Revenue is going to have to be raised, benefits are going to have to be cut, the tax base broadened, or some combination of all this to shore the welfare programs up. There is no political will to do this - even if there was, the average person is overtaxed as it stands now.
Or we need to spend less on things that do not benefit US citizens.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
^^ I'm not going to comment on the political names mentioned but:

-- I have no idea how long SS will stay as it is. Lawmakers changed the rules about file and suspend and made it effective in just months.
-- I totally agree: we are at a pivot point as critical as the end of the Cold War, and maybe a period as unstable as the 1960s
-- I'm not confident politicians will make the right call
-- I'm not confident the AMERICAN PEOPLE will make the right call on electing the right people who could "solve" it. (this year or later, ever")

On one hand -- technology isn't new… look at the light bulb or telephone. Hell look at how discovering electricity revolutionized things.
On the other -- competition from the rest of the world I'd say -- IS MUCH different from previous generations.
On one hand -- America has always been "capitalist."
On the other -- some would argue that these ARE INDEED different challenges than we've faced before. (economically and geopolitically…and that makes all the difference.
So then I ask well how many hands do we have….

Some days I'm pessimistic, some days optimistic.
There is a lot of talk out there about how quickly now nascent technologies (AI, nanotechnology, etc.) will blossom and revolutionize different fields. When you sent down and actually think about it, is society really innovating at the pace it once did, and are today's innovation as useful as those in yesteryear? Is the smart phone as big of an innovation as the automobile? Is the personal computer as big of an innovation as the electric grid? IMO, we are seeing a lot of innovation - the utility of which is often nominal, and no, I'm not referring to the smartphone or the PC. I think social media's impact is way overstated, and certain gadgets like my Apple Watch, while certainly innovative, have limited use.

When people look back on the good old days, they often forget America was one of the only developed economies left mostly intact after World War II. Some of that prosperity was based on one-off factors that aren't easily repeatable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Or we need to spend less on things that do not benefit US citizens.
I was a big fan of some of Rand Paul's ideas to dramatically reduce the amount of direct foreign aid overseas. We simply aren't in a position anymore to hand out largesse to companies who are our direct economic competitors, have major ideological differences with, or who take advantage of us.
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