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Old 03-08-2016, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larsm View Post
Do you really care what impact a billionaire and his wife's draw on SS is?

The problem with means testing SS is it will not work from a practical standpoint. To have any real impact the thresholds would have to dip so low into middle America as to be a non starter. And to go symbolically after the "rich" for optics changes the basic nature of SS and pushes it toward welfare.
Look at Medicare. Means testing starting at $85k for a single person - and $170k for a couple. And no one is complaining. You could start means testing at lower levels - like $50k for a single person - and $100k for a married couple - and there still wouldn't be many people complaining. Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Sometimes numbers are so large they are depressing or perhaps not believeable.

https://www.fidelity.com/about-fidelity/employer-services/health-care-costs-for-couples-retirement-rise
The numbers look pretty much on target to me. When you take into account Medicare Parts B and D - and a good Medigap policy. And paying for things that Medicare doesn't pay for. Like most dental expenses and glasses and hearing aids and various drug costs. It all adds up - even if you don't have long term care expenses or similar. When I was 45 - I thought it would all be cheaper. Turned out not to be the case. Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkmere View Post
Well, they won't be cutting those of us already getting it (boomers), but be my guest if you want to cut your own.
There will be back doors. Like taxing the last 15% (perhaps even having a tax surcharge for wealthier taxpayers - like we currently have for Medicare) - or means testing for Medicare - or similar. Nothing that most seniors currently on SS/Medicare can't handle. Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
I always find it funny that social security which is funded by people who work can run out of money while welfare which goes to those who don't work never runs out of money
It's because we have a mythical "trust fund". Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elliotgb View Post
May be time to bail out of this forum.
Too much sarcasm and criticism.

Mathjack was just stating what he does personally to keep in shape.
I don't believe it was self aggrandizement at all, sorry!
If you want an uncritical friend for life - get a dog .

On my part - I think mathjak has some good ideas from time to time. But he kind of keeps changing his mind when it comes to various things. Which I can totally understand considering his stage in terms of retirement and the current investment environment. Still - it's best not to say that X is the way to go - and then changing your mind 6 months or a year later.

I've been pretty much doing/saying the same thing since my husband and I retired 30 years ago. Has always worked out pretty much ok for us. With all of this talk of a negative interest rate environment - perhaps coming to the US soon - I think I will have to sit back and re-evaluate things. Perhaps a lot. I doubt anyone - older or younger - has any experience with a negative interest rate environment. Just glad I'm older - and not younger. So I have fewer years to take care of/plan for. Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,178 posts, read 1,956,881 times
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I've messed around a bit with the "fix SS" interactive calculator on crfb.org

According to their calculator, the program can be fixed with two adjustments. Index FRA based on life expectancy after the 67 mark, and increase the (combined) SS payroll tax from 12.4% to 14.4%.

There are not enough wealthy people to fix the problem via means testing, or even a moderate tax on all income akin to the medicare tax.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,923,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Other than some symbolic means testing for truly high income retirees, I certainly agree with this. I also think a 100% taxable tier is coming for Social Security income. Again, this will be largely symbolic.

The thing people seem to be forgetting is that old people vote. Millennials largely don't vote. No politician is going to risk facing recall elections where every Boomer would vote kick them out of office if they touched the political third rail.

Medicare, on the other hand, is not sustainable. I look at the United Kingdom for my cues on what health care public policy will likely be for the socialized medicine part of the health care system. Anything expensive is tightly rationed. Anyone with behavior-induced health problems goes to the end of the queue. They do everything possible to try to minimize the amount of money spent in the last 6 months of life. Unless you can pay cash, a lot of services offered to retirees now are going to vanish. Medicaid is going to be even more tightly rationed. The states pay up to 50% of the bill and it's crushing them. The states I've looked at now have Medicaid/CHIP as more than 1/3 of their budget.
There's a lot of truth to what you say - what you've observed when it comes to Medicare. Not necessarily the other things (I think Millennials - especially in college towns - are turning out for candidates like Sanders).

I don't necessarily want any or everything to prolong my life when I'm near the end - but I don't want the government telling me where to draw the line. Robyn
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Old 03-08-2016, 06:28 PM
 
13,879 posts, read 7,391,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Even though I don't have children - I very much agree with you. Too much money going from poorer Millennials to richer Boomers these days. Should be the other way around. And if it means I lose a few bucks in the process - well I can afford it. Robyn
Boomers have fully funded their Social Security benefits. Using incredibly pessimistic Social Security Administration estimates, the program is fully funded through 2037. The reality is that I'll be dead before it's exhausted. The Federal government went off and spent the "trust fund" money but my employers and I have been pouring money into the program for 35+ years and I won't be collecting a penny for 12 more years. I'm high income. I've been dumping money into the Medicare program my entire work career. Again, I haven't collected a dime of benefits and I won't for another 8 years. My money has been flung at people older than me and I'll never get back anything like what my employers and I have contributed. I have no issue with that since it's my obligation to society but what makes the Millennials so special? In 20 years, they're going to be the high income people funding my retirement. In 40 or 50 years, their children will be funding the Millennial's retirement. That's the way it works.

My tax dollars have been paying for all the infrastructure the Millennials have consumed. I paid for their K-12 education with my property taxes. They drive on roads my tax money funded. They're going to be the rich people paying for all that. What makes them so special that they get to shirk their obligation?

And I'm not one of those mouth breathers complaining about high taxes when their effective tax rate is below 10%. I pay big money in Federal income taxes every year. I'm part of that 5% that pays most of the bills.

I get that the truly rich have co-opted the system. It's in their interest that the corporations they own don't pay the employer side of Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. They'll fight to the death trying to prevent any increases either to tax rates or to lifting the income cap. They'd much rather let the poor and elderly starve so they can line their pockets. I used to be a Libertarian until I looked around and realized it was the politics of greed.
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:11 PM
 
519 posts, read 430,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Boomers have fully funded their Social Security benefits. Using incredibly pessimistic Social Security Administration estimates, the program is fully funded through 2037. The reality is that I'll be dead before it's exhausted. The Federal government went off and spent the "trust fund" money but my employers and I have been pouring money into the program for 35+ years and I won't be collecting a penny for 12 more years. I'm high income. I've been dumping money into the Medicare program my entire work career. Again, I haven't collected a dime of benefits and I won't for another 8 years. My money has been flung at people older than me and I'll never get back anything like what my employers and I have contributed. I have no issue with that since it's my obligation to society but what makes the Millennials so special? In 20 years, they're going to be the high income people funding my retirement. In 40 or 50 years, their children will be funding the Millennial's retirement. That's the way it works.

My tax dollars have been paying for all the infrastructure the Millennials have consumed. I paid for their K-12 education with my property taxes. They drive on roads my tax money funded. They're going to be the rich people paying for all that. What makes them so special that they get to shirk their obligation?

And I'm not one of those mouth breathers complaining about high taxes when their effective tax rate is below 10%. I pay big money in Federal income taxes every year. I'm part of that 5% that pays most of the bills.

I get that the truly rich have co-opted the system. It's in their interest that the corporations they own don't pay the employer side of Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. They'll fight to the death trying to prevent any increases either to tax rates or to lifting the income cap. They'd much rather let the poor and elderly starve so they can line their pockets. I used to be a Libertarian until I looked around and realized it was the politics of greed.
As Sir Isaac Newton said, we "stand on the shoulders of giants". As you say, Millenniums stand on Boomers and Boomers stood on the Greatest Generation...
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
interesting view on it in the ny times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/op...gman.html?_r=0
2010. Gosh, it seems like yesterday that Krugman pointed out that only the relatively well off have enjoyed an increase in life expectancy. As noted, it would be difficult to push the full retirement age to 70.
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