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Old 03-16-2016, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,157,456 times
Reputation: 2634

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Who the heck knows what a President Trump might do? I'm willing to give it a try .
I also like to understand how people vote, but I never understood why would anyone support a candidate that he / she does not understand.

Voting for Prez is not like buying a pair shoes that you can return tomorrow. It's un-returnable and with huge consequences.

I myself might not vote at all. Every candidate for me is a deal-breaker. And I have only one condition -- whoever puts the hand on the bible and takes the oath -- to uphold the Constitution and faithfully execute the laws -- do not violate the oath.

It's pretty pathetic that all candidates at various degrees, boast who will violate the Constitution more.

 
Old 03-17-2016, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,920,408 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
I also like to understand how people vote, but I never understood why would anyone support a candidate that he / she does not understand.

Voting for Prez is not like buying a pair shoes that you can return tomorrow. It's un-returnable and with huge consequences.

I myself might not vote at all. Every candidate for me is a deal-breaker. And I have only one condition -- whoever puts the hand on the bible and takes the oath -- to uphold the Constitution and faithfully execute the laws -- do not violate the oath.

It's pretty pathetic that all candidates at various degrees, boast who will violate the Constitution more.
I don't hear any candidates - even those I dislike - saying that. OTOH - various people have various ideas of what the Constitution means. If they didn't - all Supreme Court decisions would be unanimous.

For example - look at one current area of dispute. Whether the Senate has a constitutional duty to have confirmation hearings on a Supreme Court nomination. There's certainly no agreement on this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...court-nominee/

One can understand a candidate - more or less - without knowing exactly what he/she might do if elected. Or - to be more precise - without knowing exactly what he/she might want to do when it comes to every little issue. Because office holders don't always get what they want.

OTOH - it's often easy to get a sense of a candidate's vision. For example - I see Trump's "wall" as more of a metaphor than anything else. And that metaphor resonates with a lot of people. For a lot of reasons. Whether you're talking about an unemployed construction worker who can't get a job because an immigrant - often an illegal one - will work on the cheap. Often for an employer who isn't paying FICA or workers' comp. Or someone like me. Who gets PO'd traveling in certain parts of Florida where people can't/don't speak English. Often after living in this country for decades.

FWIW - we have approximately 1 million *illegal* immigrants in Florida:

Illegal Immigration Statistics in Florida

Immigrants - both legal and illegal - tend to be heavier users of social welfare programs than natives:

Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households | Center for Immigration Studies

And abuse of welfare benefits by legal and illegal immigrants tends to drive taxpayers - including this taxpayer - nuts:

U.S. welfare flows to Cuba - Sun Sentinel

I don't think it's a fluke that Trump won 66 out of 67 counties in Florida on Tuesday. Because a lot of us have had it "up to here" when it comes to this stuff. I don't think Florida is unusual. For example - I know someone in Minnesota who supports Trump. Only because of his stance on immigration. She is concerned with things like this:

Minneapolis' ISIS problem - Business Insider

It will be interesting to see what happens in Arizona next week. Could be wrong - but I think a lot of voters in Arizona are as PO'd as voters in Florida. Robyn
 
Old 03-17-2016, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,920,408 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
There are options besides more and more taxes and/or lesser and lesser benefits. We could take some of the money that we spend elsewhere and spend it on social security, healthcare and even heaven forbid new programs such as daycare and eldercare.

If I had the choice I would vote to chop the h3ll out of the military budget.
How about getting rid of illegal immigrants and spending the money we're spending on them on people who are legally in this country? Also cutting down on legal immigration when it comes to people who are going to use a lot of welfare type benefits? Robyn
 
Old 03-17-2016, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27602
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
There are options besides more and more taxes and/or lesser and lesser benefits. We could take some of the money that we spend elsewhere and spend it on social security, healthcare and even heaven forbid new programs such as daycare and eldercare.

If I had the choice I would vote to chop the h3ll out of the military budget.
A good portion of that military budget ends up going to defense contractors that employ hundreds of thousands of people.
 
Old 03-17-2016, 08:40 AM
 
6,218 posts, read 4,718,283 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
A good portion of that military budget ends up going to defense contractors that employ hundreds of thousands of people.
But what they produce is of no value to society. IMO that is like paying people to do nothing. Instead why not pay people to do something valuable and then we all benefit. Instead of that expensive road to nowhere that was built in Alaska, why not build a road that people need?
 
Old 03-17-2016, 08:49 AM
 
6,218 posts, read 4,718,283 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post


........... I see Trump's "wall" as more of a metaphor than anything else............ Robyn
I don't think Trump speaks in metaphors. I suspect his wall is indeed a wall.


He wants it to secure the borders from terrorists or drug runners as well as illegal aliens. Oh, I forgot, "illegal aliens" is not PC. We need to call them undocumented workers, whether they work or not. In addition to the wall, it seems the solution is simple. We do not need to round them up and night for mass deportation. Just end the social services. End the employment. They will leave by the millions.
 
Old 03-17-2016, 09:49 AM
 
6,306 posts, read 5,046,206 times
Reputation: 12810
How are you going to put a wall here? They have river rafting tours on the Rio Grande river.

http://www.nps.gov/rigr/planyourvisi...overlook_2.jpg
 
Old 03-17-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,157,456 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
We do not need to round them up and night for mass deportation.
The argument of "we should not round up the illegals...' is asinine and lawless. Law says "we round up and deport." So until we pass another law, executive branch is supposed to round-up and deport.

Secondly, a few days ago I checked myself the FBI crime statistics -- every year we ROUND UP hundreds of thousands of citizens, and incarcerate them for soft crimes, such as forgery, fraud, etc.

We literally round them up. We go look for them, we catch them, put them in buses, on orange suits, and incarcerate them. Many have children too, so according to the other asinine argument "we break up families!!!"

Why is it ok for some law-breakers, and not others to be rounded up, under the same law?

Third argument -- whoever calls for deportation is a xenophobe. Ok. If a small percentage of chinese poeple managed to get here illegaly, let's say 200 million -- would we not deport them? If yes, what are we, chinesephobe?

I mean it's really idiotic, and lawlessness.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I don't hear any candidates - even those I dislike - saying that. OTOH - various people have various ideas of what the Constitution means. If they didn't - all Supreme Court decisions would be unanimous.
Of course they do -- every candidate says "I'll do this, and I'll do that." They're talking about new laws, or deviating from existing law, or not doing what existing law requires them to do. Bernie and Hillary are in a race who can issue more "executive orders" than the other.

Executive branch is not supposed to legislate -- this is a major violation of Constitution -- separation of powers. It shreds the Constitution to its core. Obama and others pushed the envelope, now everybody wants to push even further.
 
Old 03-17-2016, 02:49 PM
 
536 posts, read 631,272 times
Reputation: 1473
Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers, who are profiting by breaking the law and paying ridiculously low wages. That will never happen, though, because people like to blame people from outside the country rather than the robber barons inside who profit from many tax laws but flout the immigration laws.
 
Old 03-17-2016, 03:27 PM
 
6,306 posts, read 5,046,206 times
Reputation: 12810
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyalicemore View Post
Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers, who are profiting by breaking the law and paying ridiculously low wages. That will never happen, though, because people like to blame people from outside the country rather than the robber barons inside who profit from many tax laws but flout the immigration laws.
Exactly! Who is hiring them? Who benefits from their lower wages? All of us.
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