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...Third argument -- whoever calls for deportation is a xenophobe. Ok. If a small percentage of chinese poeple managed to get here illegaly, let's say 200 million -- would we not deport them? If yes, what are we, chinesephobe?
I mean it's really idiotic, and lawlessness.
Just FWIW - we have had immigration busts of illegal Chinese immigrants here in my metro area in recent years. For example:
There was another one I recall where all the workers worked at a Chinese buffet - and the person who blew the whistle lived next door to them and noticed that about 14 adults were living in a single family house .
FWIW - one reason this issue really pisses me off is I have well educated family members from another country who want to move here. Other family members are even willing to guarantee them - and make sure they will never ask for government welfare benefits (which is what you had to do when my grandparents came to this country - make sure immigrants weren't indigent parasites). Can they get a green card? No. Robyn
Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers, who are profiting by breaking the law and paying ridiculously low wages. That will never happen, though, because people like to blame people from outside the country rather than the robber barons inside who profit from many tax laws but flout the immigration laws.
In my area - well they're hardly robber barons. More like roofing contractors who have 5-6 person crews. Or landscape outfits with a few employees. Still - employers aren't following the law. OTOH - people here just want the lowest bid on a roof or landscape job. And they'll get that with an employer who hires illegals to do the work. The people who hire the contractors are very much "don't ask - don't tell".
Also - I can understand some of the frustration when it comes to hiring employees. I've had people in the building/landscaping/etc. trades here tell me that Mexicans (legal or illegal) work harder than natives here. Also - they don't get drunk/high on drugs all weekend - and then not show up for work on Monday. When we first moved to Miami (a long time ago) - the Cuban work ethic among fairly recent Cuban immigrants was amazing ("you want it done - we'll do it yesterday"). That work ethic seems to be fading when it comes to newer Cuban immigrants - is pretty much non-existent when it comes to the tons of (legal) Puerto Ricans now flooding central Florida - but is still prevalent when it comes to Mexican immigrants. I also see that work ethic when it comes to Hispanic immigrants from some other countries - like Peru. Not to mention the work ethic of quite a few non-Hispanic immigrants. Like those from Albania and Romania and countries that were part of Yugoslavia before it fell apart:
When I go to have blood work at Mayo - seems like 90% of the people who draw blood there are from eastern Europe. Don't know why that is. All I know is they all have decent jobs and have spent a lot of time learning to speak great English. Although they sometimes chide me for not knowing all the historical details when it comes to their countries of origin - like Bosnia .
In light of all my experiences with immigrants - I can say that at times I am somewhat confused. But I can say I don't want immigrants who - from the get-go - will take more from this country than they are willing/able to contribute to it. Robyn
In my area - well they're hardly robber barons. More like roofing contractors who have 5-6 person crews. Or landscape outfits with a few employees. Still - employers aren't following the law. OTOH - people here just want the lowest bid on a roof or landscape job. And they'll get that with an employer who hires illegals to do the work. The people who hire the contractors are very much "don't ask - don't tell". Robyn
They are doing the same in Texas. The company has a foreman on staff.
The foreman gets a wad of cash to go hire workers.
Done for landscaping, construction, roofing, pool install, you name it.
It seems only electricians and plumbers don't do it.
They are doing the same in Texas. The company has a foreman on staff.
The foreman gets a wad of cash to go hire workers.
Done for landscaping, construction, roofing, pool install, you name it.
It seems only electricians and plumbers don't do it.
Same here. I think the deal with electricians and plumbers here is you can't work off a general occupational license that is issued to the employer. The guy who installs your lighting - connects the wires - has to be licensed too (although a helper could perhaps just help lift a fixture into place). Also - electricians and plumbers charge a bloody fortune. I just got a quote from an electrician to install some fixtures. $155/hour for the first hour.
I feel very conflicted by this. On the one hand - I am paying for "legal workers". And paying through the nose. On the other hand - the head of my legal landscaping crew is about 38 - has gained 50 pounds in the last 5 years - has 3 illegitimate children by 2 women - and is lazy as anything (which is especially apparent now during spring gardening season). My husband and I do more "heavy lifting" than he is willing/able to do these days. Our landscaping outfit puts its (probably legal) Mexican crews on commercial projects - and those crews just seem to be more energetic/do better work. Robyn
Same here. I think the deal with electricians and plumbers here is you can't work off a general occupational license that is issued to the employer. The guy who installs your lighting - connects the wires - has to be licensed too (although a helper could perhaps just help lift a fixture into place). Also - electricians and plumbers charge a bloody fortune. I just got a quote from an electrician to install some fixtures. $155/hour for the first hour.
I feel very conflicted by this. On the one hand - I am paying for "legal workers". And paying through the nose. On the other hand - the head of my legal landscaping crew is about 38 - has gained 50 pounds in the last 5 years - has 3 illegitimate children by 2 women - and is lazy as anything (which is especially apparent now during spring gardening season). My husband and I do more "heavy lifting" than he is willing/able to do these days. Our landscaping outfit puts its (probably legal) Mexican crews on commercial projects - and those crews just seem to be more energetic/do better work. Robyn
I'm rural. My town has one guy with his son, both licensed.
In July they came out to fix the AC..blowing hot air.
Fixed something and then the next day was shutting off before hitting the temp..overheating.
So they came back out again and this time spent a few hours to replace other parts.
Didn't get the bill until December (life really does move slow in the country) and it was a total of $350 for both trips, parts and labor.
I have refrained from participating in this thread due to the strong political overtone in spite of the disclaimer by the OP. I have my strong beliefs, social and political convictions but have decided long ago that it is a waste of time to engage in political or religious debates be it with friends/families or total strangers on the web.
However, since this thread has now veered towards discussion about immigrants, I feel compelled to provide several links on the immigration myths
My husband is a second generation immigrant (his parents migrated from Canada & grand parents migrated from England and Ireland) and had recently completed a documentary film on US immigrants in NY (started with the Irish then Italians to current Mexicans, South Americans and Middle Easterners etc. The filming started 3 years ago and just happened to have footage of Trump and Ann Coulter. His producer and himself had never expected the anti-immigration rhetoric to reach this level with Trump successfully rides the anti-immigration wave to be the certain Republican Presidential candidate nominee. Nativism is alive and well to the 21st century!
I am not sure you understand how Medicare financing works.
Part A is "free". I am not sure what the real cost of part A is - but I suspect it's about $200-300/month for seniors. Part B is $104.90 for most people. And that is approximately 25% of the cost of part B. And all but high imcome earners ($85k/single - $170k couple) and those going on Medicare this year pay that $104.90. So where would the extra come from when it comes to everyone else?
Your approval of taxing financial transactions is ridiculously laughable and naive. Who do you think would be affected by that? Not the big guys - who will transact all of their business outside the US. Just the moms and pops with accounts at Fidelity. Which would - in the end - harm seniors who are investing and sometimes trading and not bring in any meaningful revenue.
In terms of taxing "offshore companies" - well it's kind of like paying tax when you buy something on Amazon. If Amazon has a physical place of business in your state these days - you'll pay sales tax. If it doesn't - you won't. You can't tax any corporation just because you care to. Robyn
The money would come from all the medical insurance premiums Americans pay now, and it would come from all the Medicaid that the states and the feds fund. There would be no more private insurance, and there would be no more Medicaid. Everything would roll into a single payer national health care system. Would individuals still be responsible for some premiums? Maybe. I'm on Medicare and my supplemental insurance (including dental) costs me $273/month, in addition to the part B premium that they take out of my SS. There is no "free," but there is also no doubt that a national single payer system would save US citizens billions of dollars a year.
The "big guys" in the market are the ones who use high speed computers to buy and sell a million shares a day. They couldn't do it offshore because they would not have access to those stocks. If they continue their speculative ways on the Bourse, we really won't care. Yes, it would change US stock trading patterns, but only by plugging in the tax as an overhead item for trades. Some trades would not happen, but many still would. It would leave small investors virtually unaffected.
I didn't say "taxing offshore companies," I said "taxing offshore profits." There is a big difference. They typical corporate scam is to have an offshore subsidiary sell inventory to domestic corporations for very near the sale price, which leaves all the profit in other countries, where they can dodge US taxes. It's straightforward to determine who has a controlling interest in the profits and make them pay taxes on those profits. With no monetary advantage to holding offshore cash, that money would be repatriated and be a big boost to the economy. We would no longer see a spectacle like GE going a decade and declaring over a billion dollars in offshore profits, but paying no US taxes.
Don't say it can't be done. The big money interests would scream like raped eagles, but we could end their free ride if we have the political will.
The money would come from all the medical insurance premiums Americans pay now, and it would come from all the Medicaid that the states and the feds fund. There would be no more private insurance, and there would be no more Medicaid. Everything would roll into a single payer national health care system. Would individuals still be responsible for some premiums? Maybe. I'm on Medicare and my supplemental insurance (including dental) costs me $273/month, in addition to the part B premium that they take out of my SS. There is no "free," but there is also no doubt that a national single payer system would save US citizens billions of dollars a year.
The "big guys" in the market are the ones who use high speed computers to buy and sell a million shares a day. They couldn't do it offshore because they would not have access to those stocks. If they continue their speculative ways on the Bourse, we really won't care. Yes, it would change US stock trading patterns, but only by plugging in the tax as an overhead item for trades. Some trades would not happen, but many still would. It would leave small investors virtually unaffected.
I didn't say "taxing offshore companies," I said "taxing offshore profits." There is a big difference. They typical corporate scam is to have an offshore subsidiary sell inventory to domestic corporations for very near the sale price, which leaves all the profit in other countries, where they can dodge US taxes. It's straightforward to determine who has a controlling interest in the profits and make them pay taxes on those profits. With no monetary advantage to holding offshore cash, that money would be repatriated and be a big boost to the economy. We would no longer see a spectacle like GE going a decade and declaring over a billion dollars in offshore profits, but paying no US taxes.
Don't say it can't be done. The big money interests would scream like raped eagles, but we could end their free ride if we have the political will.
Vermont was going to do that. Passed a bill and everything.
Then the issue was how to fund it.
They planned on keeping the Fed medicaid money.
But it eventually got scrapped. Why ? Well they would have had to implement a new payroll tax of 18% (11% employer and 7% employee), and an additional personal income tax of 9.5%.
The initial cost was estimated at $4.3 billion and rising annually as health care costs rose.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...r-health-care/
But Michael Costa, Shumlin’s deputy director of health care reform, concluded the plan would have required an 11.5 percent payroll tax on all Vermont businesses and an income tax hike of up to 9.5 percent. Those taxes wouldn’t have covered transition costs to the new system, which would have amounted to at least $500 million.
..
The administration’s budget officials tried to find ways to pay for the program without the tax hikes, though no one could come up with a solution that prevented the tax hikes.
My husband is a second generation immigrant (his parents migrated from Canada & grand parents migrated from England and Ireland)
Heh - they were way ahead of the game in that they, at least spoke English - and probably were LITERATE to boot. Many of the current immigrants (and virtually all of the illegals) are unskilled, poorly educated, won't learn the language, some don't even know what a toilet is, and refuse to assimilate. They are USERS of the welfare safety nets, huge drains on the schools, requiring ESL teachers, depriving children of the taxpayers proper attention in the classroom, and medical facilities with demands for uncompensated care, all of which is well-documented. Which is why the border states (and others) are FED UP.
Trade and immigration are my two top issues - and Trump is right on both. Regrettably, I don't "like" him at all. Publicly, he is a boor - although I suspect he can be quite charming in private.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 03-17-2016 at 11:16 PM..
I'm not for Trump but I do agree with him in some ways about the illegal immigration issue. Currently there is barely any LEGAL way for someone to come here.
They have to win a lottery or have a job that no one else can do (highly unlikely), or, in some cases, they can work for a foreign company that will transfer them here.
That leaves most people out. So you could have a well educated, highly motivated worker who speaks English and has close relatives here, but the USA won't allow them to immigrate. Happens all the time.
About the only other way to get here is to become engaged to an American.
Can't we have some legitimate method of allowing decent people to come here to live? Decent people who could pass a background check, get their vaccinations and health check, pay thousands of dollars to our government, and swear to not become dependent upon welfare. Decent people who come already sponsored by their families. Why are we keeping these good people out? And why is it fair to keep them out while letting millions in illegally? The immigration system needs to be fixed so that decent people can come here legally.
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