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Old 04-04-2016, 05:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the reality is no one really knows what we all have . those surveys, even the separate census one are just randomly given to a relatively small sampling .

i don't think you would come close to guessing what each of us has on our own block it vary's so much .

personally who cares what others have or don't . if everyone worried more about themselves instead of their neighbor they would be better off
Totally disagree and I suspect when you think about it you might also. We often look at the wealth of any area we consider living in retirement in withing the context of Cost of Living. That is directly related to the wealth and income of our potential neighbors in the region etc. When we seek a low COL area we are often seeking neighbors with limited income and wealth to drive the cost up. When we are seeking a higher standard of living we are seeking like people to help sustain the cost of and to participate in the services.

The draw of many retirement communities especially Del Webb active 55 communities is to bring together neighbors of a similar economic and social profile to help sustain the community and the amenities provided. Golf linked communities especially so. Education, transportation, health services are often tied to the wealth of the community as are senior programs and the ability to provide Medicaid related services. Just basic things like supermarkets, restuarant availability is tied to income.

Many neighborhoods have limited shopping options and others have multiple. Usually related to our potential neighbors income. One of the basic data points provided by City-Data in the non forum areas is data on the income level of where anyone might be considering living etc etc. At one point that was one of the mostly used parts of this web site.

In addition to family one of the reasons you like NYC is because of the wide range of experiences the wealth of your neighbors created.

Don't you want neighbors able to keep up and sustain their property as they age and be able to pay their taxes?
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:57 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Don't you want neighbors able to keep up and sustain their property as they age and be able to pay their taxes?
When basic human decency isn't enough, there's still a means by which people should be able to come to realize that the winners-and-losers approach to society isn't decent.
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Totally disagree and I suspect when you think about it you might also. We often look at the wealth of any area we consider living in retirement in withing the context of Cost of Living. That is directly related to the wealth and income of our potential neighbors in the region etc. When we seek a low COL area we are often seeking neighbors with limited income and wealth to drive the cost up. When we are seeking a higher standard of living we are seeking like people to help sustain the cost of and to participate in the services.

The draw of many retirement communities especially Del Webb active 55 communities is to bring together neighbors of a similar economic and social profile to help sustain the community and the amenities provided. Golf linked communities especially so. Education, transportation, health services are often tied to the wealth of the community as are senior programs and the ability to provide Medicaid related services. Just basic things like supermarkets, restuarant availability is tied to income.

Many neighborhoods have limited shopping options and others have multiple. Usually related to our potential neighbors income. One of the basic data points provided by City-Data in the non forum areas is data on the income level of where anyone might be considering living etc etc. At one point that was one of the mostly used parts of this web site.

In addition to family one of the reasons you like NYC is because of the wide range of experiences the wealth of your neighbors created.

Don't you want neighbors able to keep up and sustain their property as they age and be able to pay their taxes?

there is a difference between what the surveys show my neighbors MIGHT have vs what they actually do .

unless you move in to a depressed area odds are the income and wealth will be all over the place .

paying attention to reported numbers on very limited surveys is not going to mean much . you have folks living below their means , at their means and above their means in any given area so you really have no clue what they have or can maintain .
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there is a difference between what the surveys show my neighbors MIGHT have vs what they actually do .

unless you move in to a depressed area odds are the income and wealth will be all over the place .

paying attention to reported numbers on very limited surveys is not going to mean much . you have folks living below their means , at their means and above their means in any given area so you really have no clue what they have or can maintain .
Local data in City-Data gives a very good picture and when I was using it very helpful. I was not in my recent comment to you referencing broad survey data but the whole pool of available data on specific locations. Many potential retirement communities use wealth as their entrance key and make that known.
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:10 AM
 
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it depends on the area . i know when we had the house in pa the area hoa's were filled with wealthy transplants . look around the local roads and you have a mix of locals that wre struggling to get by and middle class lifestyle folks who are not even close to the transplants wealth .

so depending who got the limited surveys is how the area is graded .

our area in queens is considered upper middle class but we have extremely wealthy people here as well as those who are really stretching the income trying to live in such a desirable area .

so who got the survey's ? not me , i never saw one nor has anyone we have known locally .

looking at the demographic info for our area is really not the real deal as to who your neighbor is.

it is kind of like when they say homeowners are wealthier then renters but the renting group includes very very wealthy and very very poor so the whole group gets labeled which does not mean the label is true fo everyone in the group .

until they go back to having the financial survey part of every census count i have no clue about my neighbor .

in fact our building has a big turnover because so many move in and realize they can't afford to live here as well as many move out because they realize they like the area and now want to buy a 600k plus home here , which is entry level . . so what the demographics may show does not hold true for your neighbor .

Last edited by mathjak107; 04-04-2016 at 06:23 AM..
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:20 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it depends on the area . i know when we had the house in pa the area hoa's were filled with wealthy transplants . look around the local roads and you have a mix of locals that wre struggling to get by and middle class lifestyle folks who are not even close to the transplants wealth .

so depending who got the limited surveys is how the area is graded .

our area in queens is considered upper middle class but we have extremely wealthy people here as well as those who are really stretching the income trying to live in such a desirable area .

so who got the survey's ? not me , i never saw one nor has anyone we have known locally .

looking at the demographic info for our area is really not the real deal as to who your neighbor is.

it is kind of like when they say homeowners are wealthier then renters but the renting group includes very very wealthy and very very poor so the whole group gets labeled which does not mean the label is true for the group
I am not talking about survey info. There is data based on tax and other data sources. Your wealthy neighbors would be included in their primary resident local in many data bases. Remember you can get data by zip code.
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:28 AM
 
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the data they round up unofficially , has gaps everywhere .

many folks earn great livings and have lots of wealth and just don't show a lot of taxable income , retirees being a prime example .

with some luck i will show income low enough to qualify for an aca subsidy despite the asset level . to the demographics i am quite poor for the area .

non taxable wealth like annuity and insurance product are hard to count without surveys disclosing them .

despite their best efforts you really no zip about your neighbors financial status , especially their own debt level to income .

it really is a waste of time paying any attention to these articles that either claim doom and gloom or more folks are doing better then we think because wealth and income is so variable regardless of area generally and a lot of it is just not countable in a meaningful way unless all respond since not everything can be assigned to an individual .

how would they ever match that 500k cash value on a life insurance policy to my neighbor unless he tells them ? they wouldn't be able to count it as it shows no where unless he specifically answers questions about it ..

Last edited by mathjak107; 04-04-2016 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:36 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the data they round up unofficially , has gaps everywhere .

many folks earn great livings and have lots of wealth and just don't show a lot of taxable income , retirees being a prime example .

with some luck i will show income low enough to qualify for an aca subsidy despite the asset level . to the demographics i am quite poor for the area .

non taxable wealth like annuity and insurance product are hard to count without surveys disclosing them .

despite their best efforts you really no zip about your neighbors financial status , especially their own debt level to income .

it really is a waste of time paying any attention to these articles that either claim doom and gloom or more folks are doing better then we think because wealth and income is so variable regardless of area generally and a lot of it is just not countable in a meaningful way unless all respond since not everything can be assigned to an individual .
Again and moving on I am not talking about using surveys or articles but existing census bureau data basis with what ever shortcoming census and state/local data basis have. We are talking different things. So you reject yours and I accept mine.
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:38 AM
 
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exactly my point , there is no financial data that is part of the census . there are only supplemental surveys by acs and other surveys done by other groups to relatively small random samplings .

i can get the survey and my neighbor who can barely afford to live here does not . that is not an accurate result at all if you were trying to draw a conclusion about who lives here . depending on the luck of the draw and who gets it ,it may identify some as rich and some as struggling but so what , which one is your neighbor ?

insurers can tell us pretty much how many of us will die each year , but they can't tell us who . it is the same here , the guy next door to you may be struggling to maintain that house .

Last edited by mathjak107; 04-04-2016 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:11 AM
 
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interesting reading about the issues of using the biggest , most widely quoted survey , the acs survey which has replaced the census long form we all used to get .

biggest issue is the narrower the geographic area like zip code the bigger the margin of error , that is the point i was raising about mis-judging your neighbors resources .

as stated "Because the ACS surveys a sample of the population (unlike the Decennial Census), ACS data are estimates, not population counts, and are subject to sampling variability.
Especially at smaller geographies, the ACS margins of error sometimes get quite large. A rule of thumb suggested by the Census Bureau is not to use estimates for which there is a margin of error greater than one quarter of the estimate.

Data Quality Issues with the American Community Survey (ACS)

Last edited by mathjak107; 04-04-2016 at 07:21 AM..
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