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Old 04-15-2016, 10:17 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,172,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
We need to have a radical shift in society and our economic model before we can go too far with automating everything. I don't like the idea of doing things inefficiently just so people have something to do. Until we come to grips with providing for those who don't work when there aren't enough jobs to go around, we pretty much have to keep doing that though.
That's like saying, if you walk onto a freeway, the traffic has to stop. What's more likely to happen to people who get displaced by automation is that they're likely to run out of money and do whatever people do when they have no money. A lot of people get killed trying to cross freeways on foot. A lot of people with no money die of a combination of things that happen to them, such as being homeless in the winter, not having healthy food to eat, not having health insurance, etc.

Automation is likely to reduce our population, by weeding out those who can't survive without jobs that get automated. It's an unpleasant reality, but we can't change it by merely wishing it weren't so. Maybe we could find an overpass where we could cross more safely. But traffic isn't going to stop and wait for us to find one.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:20 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,172,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
But, barring that, feel free to ask me any questions you may have.
Your user name being otterhere, I'm wondering where you're otter. Are you already otter there, or just planning it?
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,401 posts, read 9,148,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ION1010 View Post
I refer to it as the "Self Abuse Lane". You never get all the items to scan and someone has to come over and fix it.
This ^^^

And the fact you can't self check out beer or wine where I live.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:53 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,880,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
That's like saying, if you walk onto a freeway, the traffic has to stop. What's more likely to happen to people who get displaced by automation is that they're likely to run out of money and do whatever people do when they have no money. A lot of people get killed trying to cross freeways on foot. A lot of people with no money die of a combination of things that happen to them, such as being homeless in the winter, not having healthy food to eat, not having health insurance, etc.

Automation is likely to reduce our population, by weeding out those who can't survive without jobs that get automated. It's an unpleasant reality, but we can't change it by merely wishing it weren't so. Maybe we could find an overpass where we could cross more safely. But traffic isn't going to stop and wait for us to find one.
Analogies are great for explaining things that are hard to understand, but I think here you are using one to make it sound like people are doing this to themselves when they are not. There would not be enough jobs to go around, but there will be enough food, clothing, shelter and transportation or to put it in simple terms enough money. That is without evening it out for everyone. The super rich could still be super rich and some people would not have much. But we don't have to deny basic services to anyone. We can choose it, but I won't vote that way. I understand that some people don't feel it is their responsibility to take care of "the least of these".
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,464 posts, read 5,933,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
I use them because they take jobs. I want those employees to find more productive jobs than to do what a machine can do.
It is so nice of you to make that decision for a single mother without a college degree who needs to put food on the table by any means necessary. I'm sure she appreciates that you are simply looking out for her best interest.

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Old 04-15-2016, 11:13 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,172,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
But we don't have to deny basic services to anyone. We can choose it, but I won't vote that way. I understand that some people don't feel it is their responsibility to take care of "the least of these".
My point was that people needing jobs is not going to stop automation. Welfare might very well be increased, but not as a precondition to automation. More likely in response to automation, years after it becomes a big problem. You had indicated that we were prevented from going ahead with automation by the need for people to have jobs. I was merely pointing out how wrong that was.

If enough people die crossing the freeway, overpass sidewalks are likely to get built. But that won't save those who die before they get built. And in any case the traffic will keep going regardless. And the long term compromise might be that the overpass sidewalks will be three miles apart. And some people might still die crossing, because they don't want to walk that far. But the key issue is that a person crossing a freeway does not cause the traffic to stop, and the need for people to have jobs does not cause automation to stop.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:25 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,172,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
It is so nice of you to make that decision for a single mother without a college degree who needs to put food on the table by any means necessary. I'm sure she appreciates that you are simply looking out for her best interest.

So you can help her by using her checkout? When they add more self service lanes do you think they're going to care that you used her checkout when they decide which employees they're going to lay off? More likely they will do whatever it takes to make it more convenient for you to use self service lanes, to motivate you to use them. When you're one of the few holdouts, they might replace all the rest of the lanes with self service. What kind of protest are you going to do then? None of your protesting is likely to make a bit of difference. It would be better for people to start getting better jobs now, while they still can, instead of waiting to become totally redundant, and get in line with thousands of other applicants for the few jobs they qualify for. If a college degree is what she needs, she's more likely to get it if she starts now, instead of waiting till the gets laid off and can't find a job.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:32 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 4,393,390 times
Reputation: 11594
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
Your user name being otterhere, I'm wondering where you're otter. Are you already otter there, or just planning it?
Plotting my escape!


And I see this has turned into a discussion about self-checkout...
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:41 AM
 
6,267 posts, read 4,740,348 times
Reputation: 12866
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
Plotting my escape!


And I see this has turned into a discussion about self-checkout...
Not really. It seems there are always those with political or religious agendas and they are determined to argue for their convictions.


To get back to the original topic. I mentioned that I felt I am becoming more social in retirement. To emphasize the point, I should mention that I spend the last 4 hours doing a hobby and joking around with some college kids. I was welcomed and had a great time. I plan on doing it again on a regular basis.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,697 posts, read 23,676,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I don't use self service checkout as a protest. They take jobs.
Glad to hear someone else feels that way.

But because I don't want to steal the topic, I will say that after decades of dealing with the public for work, I am very happy to be a semi-hermit. Quiet and alone time are fine with me. I am still attempting to make friends in my new city, in fact I hope to be moving to a new independent senior living apartment complex for that purpose because as I said, "semi-hermit."

But I no longer want to get involved with activities that require weekly meetings, commitments, large groups or parties. I am so over those things. I am just looking for a few good friends to hang out with when the spirit moves.
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