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Old 04-21-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,935 posts, read 2,894,257 times
Reputation: 6318

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
For example isn't this Program a third layer of the Safety Net?
My answer is no, it is not; it is almost the opposite. It is trying to get people who have the means to provide for themselves better. I agree that the government has a bad track record when it comes to implementing ideas; due to the compromises made to get through that quagmire we call Congress the bills that come out often only vaguely resemble the original proposal. IMO, that needs fixing but we should not give up on promoting good ideas just because our dysfunctional government might implement them poorly.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,156 posts, read 3,175,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
My answer is no, it is not; it is almost the opposite. It is trying to get people who have the means to provide for themselves better. I agree that the government has a bad track record when it comes to implementing ideas; due to the compromises made to get through that quagmire we call Congress the bills that come out often only vaguely resemble the original proposal. IMO, that needs fixing but we should not give up on promoting good ideas just because our dysfunctional government might implement them poorly.
Ok. IRA are a great idea. But why we would implement a Govt initiative while the Govt is still dysfunctional? I too would love that citizenry fixes the Govt.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:09 AM
 
11,213 posts, read 8,602,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
My answer is no, it is not; it is almost the opposite. It is trying to get people who have the means to provide for themselves better. I agree that the government has a bad track record when it comes to implementing ideas; due to the compromises made to get through that quagmire we call Congress the bills that come out often only vaguely resemble the original proposal. IMO, that needs fixing but we should not give up on promoting good ideas just because our dysfunctional government might implement them poorly.
Why would a citizen want to get involved with gov't dysfunction when the citizen can set up an equivalent retirement on their own in under an hour? It's a simple matter of opening an account and setting up automatic money transfers.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,935 posts, read 2,894,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Why would a citizen want to get involved with gov't dysfunction when the citizen can set up an equivalent retirement on their own in under an hour? It's a simple matter of opening an account and setting up automatic money transfers.
Because there is a sizable chunk of the population that won't take the initiative to do it themselves. If an employee only has to check a box on the W-4 to participate (or better yet, IMO, check a box and write the reason for not participating to opt out) I think the rate of participation would go up significantly and translate directly to less need for assistance.
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,023 posts, read 14,292,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Because there is a sizable chunk of the population that won't take the initiative to do it themselves.
So?

Free Will is what it is.

Did you ever consider the possibility that those people don't participate, because they are financially illiterate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Even SS is in fact above-and-beyond the Safety Net. The basic Safety Net for poor seniors is food stamps, free housing, free healthcare, free transportation, free phone, cash assistance, etc.

These are available to low and very-low income seniors, even those who don't get SS.
Seniors who don't get SS get SSI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
There's no such thing as wealth redistribution in America.
Wow, some people really live in a Fantasy World™.

What exactly do you call HUD Section 8?
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:06 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,935 posts, read 2,894,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Did you ever consider the possibility that those people don't participate, because they are financially illiterate?
Yes, absolutely. That's why I think it should be opt out instead of opt in. There are some that do nothing because they are not sure what to do.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:58 AM
 
11,213 posts, read 8,602,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Did you ever consider the possibility that those people don't participate, because they are financially illiterate?
We're talking about working people. Most working people have cell phones. In an age where people Facebook and tweet all day, is it too much to expect working adults to Google "how to I plan for retirement."


Sure, checking a box would be easier, but I'm not going to feel out of sorts for people who can't time a little time to plan their future.
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:20 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,935 posts, read 2,894,257 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
We're talking about working people. Most working people have cell phones. In an age where people Facebook and tweet all day, is it too much to expect working adults to Google "how to I plan for retirement."


Sure, checking a box would be easier, but I'm not going to feel out of sorts for people who can't time a little time to plan their future.
So you would rather be on the hook to help with their retirement when we could have nudged them to take care of it themselves? The goal is to increase participation in IRAs among those that have enough income to be able to participate but are not doing so. Then they need less or maybe even no help from us at retirement.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,156 posts, read 3,175,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
So you would rather be on the hook to help with their retirement when we could have nudged them to take care of it themselves? The goal is to increase participation in IRAs among those that have enough income to be able to participate but are not doing so. Then they need less or maybe even no help from us at retirement.
If you came to me and said -- hey, because of mandated IRAs, we'll pay less taxes, because we'll need less welfare, and less SS (or SSI) -- all you have to do is allow the an increasingly-all-too-pwerful Federal Govt to dictate IRAs -- I might give in for a second, become a sucker and accept it.

But no one is saying that.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,156 posts, read 3,175,339 times
Reputation: 2648
@ReachTheBeach:

I also want to post this chart of people trusting the Federal Govt:



Now only 19% trust the Federal Govt. People who trust the Federal Govt (like yourself in this case) are a small minority.

However, it wouldn't be the first time that Govt would ram something down everybody's throat.

And please, if you can't tell the difference between the free-will IRA, and Govt-mandated IRA, pls do not bother answering.
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