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Guess that is something to discuss with attorney and have attorney review any contract signed with a nursing/care facility...
Doubt that any facility would let you amend a contract to add clause you were not responsible party...
Especially if you sign contract for the person who is incapacitated
Never ever sign anyone into a rehab or facility of any kind unless you have the Power of Attorney and sign as the "POA" if they cannot sign themselves. That should commit their insurance and money, but not yours personally.
I think in the future facilities will be coming after money wherever it can be found, so be sure your family members have their legal/medical papers set up in advance so you are not left on the hook.
As far as filial laws, eventually it probably will be decided in the courts as conditions have changed so much over the years. But until then it is scary.
In that case, the son of a nursing home resident was held liable for paying his mother’s $93,000 nursing home bill when she fled the country. Ironically, neither the husband nor the other children of the nursing home resident were named as defendants Last year, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal of the defendant son, and so now there is a precedent in pa.
but in another case in pa the reverse was done . creditors sued the parents for the bills when their son died in a home under the same laws ..
i am not sure how it works if the kids are in a state with filial laws but the parents are not . we have kids in new jersey which has the laws . we are in ny which does not .
As I understand it, the nursing home/care facility may take action against the children for their parent's unpaid bills IF the facility is located in one of the states where the laws allow this. A facility located in a state where there are no such laws would not have the legal backing to carry out such an action, seems to me, no matter where the children are located.
But, a facility located in a state where filial laws exist may go after children for unpaid bills, even if the children are located in states where these laws don't exist. I recall reading an article in the Tampa Bay Times some time ago ( and I will be darned if I can find it now), about a woman living there who received a bill of about $60,000.00 from a nursing home in PA where her mother had been a resident. She didn't have the money, and had no way to pay it, and apparently with legal action ( I don't remember the details) she didn't have to pay the bills.
Never ever sign anyone into a rehab or facility of any kind unless you have the Power of Attorney and sign as the "POA" if they cannot sign themselves. That should commit their insurance and money, but not yours personally.
I think in the future facilities will be coming after money wherever it can be found, so be sure your family members have their legal/medical papers set up in advance so you are not left on the hook.
As far as filial laws, eventually it probably will be decided in the courts as conditions have changed so much over the years. But until then it is scary.
So true!! I had to sign on behalf of my parent,and randomly stuck in all the paperwork was the waiver and financial responsibility page. I READ EVERY WORD BEFORE signing. I saw that page, looked at the administrator and said: Pardon,Is this paper mandatory in order for my mother to be admitted here? She fumbled and said...Ohh...you can sign that LATER. I said: One moment, and dialed up my attorney. read him verbatim the page. He said. DO NOT SIGN IT!. For two weeks, the paperwork was at my moms bedside with a note saying, Review and sign. I refused. finally one day the admin got slick and had my younger sister sign it. My sister doesn't read stuff. That night she and I had a huge argument over that document. My sister is pretty much judgment proof ( she is on full disability with bills out the ying yang). I said, thanks a lot, NOW they will come after me
My sister waived our right to sue even when we found out that my mom had been injured there...Some people really need to READ READ, AND THEN DO NOT SIGN without consulting with an attorney!
I detest the practices done by nursing homes and rehab centers,They will squeeze blood from a turnip!
There are multiple threads about paying for the aging process and or how will you provide for yourself. As we age our needs can become more time consuming and more expensive and quite often much more expensive. Who should be providing the services we need and at what cost? We have those saying they have no one in some threads. That will require a non family member to provide services either for free or fee. There are discussions about programs that will continually provide for your needs as you age but they come at a cost. Who will pay or should they provide those services for free and not a fee. If we have family and have to go into a facility should that care be at a fee or for free. Were will we find the folks to work for free and to provide the equipment for free? If we don't there will be a cost and who should that cost fall on? Family members? Neighbors? Tax Payers? Our selvese, etc etc etc. Those are reality questions and if we are not preparing individually or are unable to then we leave our future security up to the behavior of others who may or may not make a decision we like. Not easy folks and preparing for ourselves can be a chunk of change. Asking others to pay is a chunk of change.
Very true Tuborg, but the problem is that those who behave responsibly can still be slammed by those who do not.
If you take out a long term care policy, that helps prevent others from having to pay for your own care, and maybe that of a spouse too. But doing so doesn't prevent a parent who doesn't take out such a policy from indirectly (through a facility) slamming you for ultimate payment. So being responsible can result in you both paying for yourself and others too.
And those who aren't so inclined can end up scooting through without any personal expense.
in our state if you take a partnership plan with 3 years coverage and the insurance runs out ,one of the perks in your policy is what is called extended medicaid , picks up the bills . all assets are protected and 75% of all of the stay at home spouse's income is protected .
in our state if you take a partnership plan with 3 years coverage and the insurance runs out ,one of the perks in your policy is what is called extended medicaid , picks up the bills . all assets are protected and 75% of all of the stay at home spouse's income is protected .
Mind sharing the annual cost? The reason I ask is that one of the high end CCRC's I am looking at for future consideration currently charges 53k per person as part of the entry process which is a flat extended health fee paid up front. Not sure how Medicaid can come in at any point in the process and what the impact on the other spouses income would be in the event that one goes in memory care or snf etc.
for both of us we pay about 8500 a year and get about 1600 back from ny as a tax credit . so about 6900.00 a year . we get 350 a day increased by 5% a year . 3 years snf or 6 years in home care . it also covers assisted living .
we took this in our 60's . had we taken it earlier it would have been a lot less . we really took it not for the insurance but the perks after the insurance runs out
for both of us we pay about 8500 a year and get about 1600 back from ny as a tax credit . so about 6900.00 a year . we get 350 a day increased by 5% a year . 3 years snf or 6 years in home care . it also covers assisted living .
we took this in our 60's . had we taken it earlier it would have been a lot less . we really took it not for the insurance but the perks after the insurance runs out
So a flat 53k entry fee at the beginning is about 6 years of payment privately. Makes sense. They also have your buy in and monthly fees. That $350 per day covers $127,000 annual nursing home care. Or about 4 years if you have 500K cash. Our policy is older and pays $289 per day at 5% inflation with a 60 elimination period and unlimited benefits. Our in home is real good with a good annual cap and in home care. We pay a lot less. Since we each have the same policy that's good. Doesn't necessarily cover Assisted Living depending on the states definition of. It does in some states depending on how their guidelines are written. We both know that getting insurance companies to pay up has become a challenge. I suspect that if already in place at a CCRC their resources being on your side won't hurt. The company is a good company. The trick is to have a lot of personal resources to apply along with your insurance for worse case scenario's with your spouse. Your situation is interesting and if you were interested in a real high end CCRC guaranteed to work even without insurance as long as they stayed solvent.
Last edited by TuborgP; 05-29-2016 at 04:57 PM..
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