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Old 10-10-2016, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,888 posts, read 25,323,560 times
Reputation: 26385

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
No kidding! And the transition lasted a lot longer than many people realize! I'm sure there were big regional differences in how quickly things changed, too.

I was born in 1963, the same year The Feminine Mystique was published. I was a straight-A student, fascinated by all things science, with an IQ that put me in the top 2% of the population. (I found out as an adult from my mother that when I started elementary school the local school district wanted to send me to a special school for gifted kids, at a time when that was rare. My mother nixed the plan.) At my first meeting with my high school guidance counselor, I told the counselor I wanted to be a physician. My counselor's reply? "Oh, honey, you're not SMART enough to be a doctor!" (As a practicing physician today, I can look back at this and laugh - but I also wonder sadly how many female students actually listened to this sort of nonsense and gave up on the idea of a career in the sciences before they even made it into college.)

Did I mention that my guidance counselor was a woman? And that this took place in a suburb of Chicago, not some rural Hicksville?

My high school class was also the very first one that allowed the radical educational change of allowing the girls to sign up for shop class/woodworking and auto mechanics, and the boys to sign up for cooking and sewing classes. Just one year earlier, students had no choice: the males HAD to take the "masculine" classes and the females the 'feminine" ones, because of course tasks in the home would be gender-segregated.

It's easy today to forget just how much second-wave feminism transformed US society, and how long it took for that change to be complete.
True! And it wasn't till 1974 that a woman could get her own credit card without a man signing for her!
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:30 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,165 posts, read 1,266,382 times
Reputation: 4456
I didn't realize Chicago area was so backwards back then. I graduated high school in rural Connecticut in 1976, and not only did I and other guys take HomeEc in 1974, but I knew at least 3 girls that took Shop. And I know 4 women from my class that became physicans, and the Salutorian was a girl and spoke at graduation. I dated the salutorian of the class before us and she went to MIT. Our HS guidance counsleors were generally useless for college placement advice, as they had an overwhelmingly impossible task of weighing brains, ambition and finances for the maybe 140 college bound seniors (out of 300) back then. All they could do was provide the application forms for scholarships and Letters of Recommendation once you started applying to colleges. They typically recommended the same dozen or so colleges that previous classes got in to.
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27661
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not agree at all that "our generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children".

I feel this is very far from accuracy. I graduated from high school in 1965, from university in 1970, and then it was on to graduate school.

Staying home with children never ever entered my mind nor was it ever considered a way to live for myself and many or most of my contemporaries.

The major way to live for myself and female contemporaries was to have a career and make our own money. Marriage was fine, but it did not mean not having a career.

And females who had children did not 'stay home to care for children" for a lifetime or long period, and were not encouraged to do so. Not having a career or staying home for a lifetime or long period was a 1950's scenario.

On the other topic, 'elder orphans' are not defined by poverty or economics or amount of money to live on - elder orphans are defined as people who have no spouse or no partner, no children, and no living relatives or just relatives who are not active in their lives.
It's important to note that these perspectives are often location dependent. Yes, in major metros or liberal areas where the women's lib movement was starting to get into swing, I'm sure it was more common to have more modern gender roles. In more traditionally conservative areas, like where I'm from in Appalachia, it is certainly not inaccurate to say that women were still generally "staying home with the kids," or doing part-time or traditionally "female" work. Probably a quarter to a third of couples my age that I know around here have a SAHM, even if that means delayed career development (if any at all) for the woman, lower incomes to the point of needing assistance, etc. I'm sure the percentage is higher than the further back you go in time.

You're about ten years older than my mother and a little more than ten years younger than my grandmother. My grandmother was one of the few peers her age who worked full time routinely. Quite a few of that generation didn't drive at all. Yes, things certainly changed over time, but probably not at the rate you're inferring in a majority of flyover country.
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:28 AM
 
100 posts, read 65,352 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryinva View Post
I graduated high school in rural Connecticut in 1976, and not only did I and other guys take HomeEc in 1974, but I knew at least 3 girls that took Shop.
I took HomeEc simply because that's where the girls were. Who wants to take a shop class full of hairy ankled guys?
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,236 posts, read 8,527,906 times
Reputation: 35667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
No kidding! And the transition lasted a lot longer than many people realize! I'm sure there were big regional differences in how quickly things changed, too.

I was born in 1963, the same year The Feminine Mystique was published. I was a straight-A student, fascinated by all things science, with an IQ that put me in the top 2% of the population. (I found out as an adult from my mother that when I started elementary school the local school district wanted to send me to a special school for gifted kids, at a time when that was rare. My mother nixed the plan.) At my first meeting with my high school guidance counselor, I told the counselor I wanted to be a physician. My counselor's reply? "Oh, honey, you're not SMART enough to be a doctor!" (As a practicing physician today, I can look back at this and laugh - but I also wonder sadly how many female students actually listened to this sort of nonsense and gave up on the idea of a career in the sciences before they even made it into college.)

Did I mention that my guidance counselor was a woman? And that this took place in a suburb of Chicago, not some rural Hicksville?

My high school class was also the very first one that allowed the radical educational change of allowing the girls to sign up for shop class/woodworking and auto mechanics, and the boys to sign up for cooking and sewing classes. Just one year earlier, students had no choice: the males HAD to take the "masculine" classes and the females the 'feminine" ones, because of course tasks in the home would be gender-segregated.

It's easy today to forget just how much second-wave feminism transformed US society, and how long it took for that change to be complete.
I was also born in 1963...I was a psych major and went on to go into an EXPERIMENTAL graduate program (think research not clinical). My minor was statistics with an area of concentration in physiology. In my first anatomy and physiology class my instructor was praising my work and said I was too smart to be in the nursing program....when I told him I was a (lowly) psych major he just about flipped out! Even when they TRIED to be unbiased...they just couldn't help themselves.

In high school I took a year of drafting and a semester of graphic arts - there was only one other girl in those classes - she went on to become an architect with her own firm.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,664,674 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not agree at all that "our generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children".

I feel this is very far from accuracy. I graduated from high school in 1965, from university in 1970, and then it was on to graduate school.

Staying home with children never ever entered my mind nor was it ever considered a way to live for myself and many or most of my contemporaries.

The major way to live for myself and female contemporaries was to have a career and make our own money. Marriage was fine, but it did not mean not having a career.

And females who had children did not 'stay home to care for children" for a lifetime or long period, and were not encouraged to do so. Not having a career or staying home for a lifetime or long period was a 1950's scenario.

On the other topic, 'elder orphans' are not defined by poverty or economics or amount of money to live on - elder orphans are defined as people who have no spouse or no partner, no children, and no living relatives or just relatives who are not active in their lives.
I second this. I grew up in the 50's and 60's. My mom worked most of that time. It was part time jobs but it's still work out of the home.

Many of her women friends worked as well.

In my mom's case, besides the fact my family could use the money she earned, she hated staying home with the kids. She loved working outside the home in an office. We used to tease her that she was a better transcriptionist/typist than a housewife. Her housekeeping skills were never all that great but she could type upwards of 100 WPM.

Regarding the "Elder Orphans" definition, I agree with you. The FB group has strayed from that definition. I'm about to jump ship rather than wade through all the posts from those who don't really fall into that category trying do find those who do.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Location: Happy Place
3,692 posts, read 1,869,692 times
Reputation: 11316
My mom always told me to "make your own security". I did. I will most likely be an "elder orphan" if I should survive my husband.


I'm prepared and will be just fine.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,664,674 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschrief View Post
My mom always told me to "make your own security". I did. I will most likely be an "elder orphan" if I should survive my husband.


I'm prepared and will be just fine.
My mom told me that too. She always said it's necessary for a woman to be able to support herself without having to depend upon a husband. During the Great Depression of the 20's 30's, she was for a time the major support for her family of four at the age of 16 while my grandfather was out of work.

She never forgot those years.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Cochise County, AZ
1,318 posts, read 834,822 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not agree at all that "our generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children".

I feel this is very far from accuracy. I graduated from high school in 1965, from university in 1970, and then it was on to graduate school.

Staying home with children never ever entered my mind nor was it ever considered a way to live for myself and many or most of my contemporaries.

The major way to live for myself and female contemporaries was to have a career and make our own money. Marriage was fine, but it did not mean not having a career.

And females who had children did not 'stay home to care for children" for a lifetime or long period, and were not encouraged to do so. Not having a career or staying home for a lifetime or long period was a 1950's scenario.
What a difference a few years and/or location makes. I graduated in 1970 from a high school in Northwest Indiana, and I could not tell you how many times I heard "You can't do that you're not a guy". To this day, I cannot stand it when a mixed group is addressed as "Hey guys" and my response is always "I'm not a guy!"

My family was poor, and the only way I could get into college would be if I could get a scholarship. When my counselor found out that I wasn't on the college track, I was shunted into other courses. I wanted to take biology but my older brother had failed biology so I was "guided" into biophysics. I was also guided into general math rather than algebra in my freshman year. Matter of fact, the guidance counselor stated "you're not smart enough." Sophomore year, I put my foot down and took both biology and algebra without any problems. My grades weren't high enough to obtain a scholarship even though I did graduate in the top third of my class.

To be fair, I think some of the class shunting into other course work was partly due to over crowding. My high school class graduated 574 students.

I did finally put myself through college and earned my degree at age 50. I'm still paying off student loans I started working at age 16 after school. When I graduated high school, I took an office job. I remember how hard it was to make ends meet and hated the wage caps that were in place in the 70's.

My mother didn't start working until my senior year in high school. My dad was very much opposed to her working as he felt that he should be the sole provider. If she worked, then he wasn't "man enough" to provide for our family, and he felt he had "failed". I can still hear their arguments which did not stop until one of my aunts also went out and got a job!
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,439,740 times
Reputation: 15683
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Besides, you can choose Mr Perfect but he may become Mr Imperfect one of these days when he runs off with his secretary (or insert appropriate younger woman).
I suspect you could make your point without engaging in blatant gender-bashing and stereotyping.
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