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Is an elder orphan someone who was deserted in elder years?
Before any of this can be discussed either empathatically or rationally we need to agree on what an 'elder orphan's is. And I just barely stopped myself from gagging at the pathos of it.
Or is the term 'Elder orphan' is the n***** of ageism.
Some individuals don't get the luxury of voluntarily retiring. Some are forced to retire or have to leave their jobs due to ill health. I work for a state agency and you would not believe the shenanigans that occur (reorganizing people out of their positions, state layoffs, etc.) If management wants you out, they'll make it tough for you. A few years back we had one woman targeted because someone complained of her hygiene (she's a cat hoarder) Mind you, the woman targeted worked in the same department since she was 18 and was in her early 60s when the complaint occurred. She was encouraged to seek medical and psychological treatment. She was so embarrassed and mortified she left the job. No kudos for the years of dedication to her job (she was damn good at it--very thorough), no retirement party (she was too upset to want one), NADA. The underlying reason was a targeted effort by the organization to get rid of anyone falling under Tier I state retirement plan. The middle manager so much as said that there were 2 people in her department that upper management wanted out. In a previous iteration of my own department, the new supervisor that was hired (the previous supervisor was demoted because of office politics) didn't even last a year. When he was being considered for the job he specifically told the director that if he was being hired to clean house he didn't want the job. He was assured that it was not so. Well guess what--management wanted both my previous supervisor and another colleague out.
I digress, but the point is crap has a way of sneaking up on you in life.
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Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly
Did she smell like cat urine?
Most likely that, or the fact that she lives a very meager existence and conserves water whenever she can so probably doesn't bathe as often as she should. She doesn't drive, does not have any modern conveniences (no cell phone, no computer, has antenna TV, etc. ). She has no social life and has lived all these years as a recluse with her mother. She's rather an odd duck but is an overall nice person and was really good at her job.
An elder orphan is someone without a spouse or partner, and without children, and without living relatives of significance with whom they interact or live nearby and/or devoid of living relatives.
Some people without a spouse and whose children are not active in their life have wanted to be included in the definition. (but they might have living relatives in their life)
Even occasionally a married couple whose children are not active in their lives have wanted to be included in the definition. But I clearly think they have not conceived of no spouse, no children, no relatives. Having a spouse or partner makes them completely different from first category above.
I tend to think of elder orphans as being defined by the 1st category above.
I would certainly hope so. It's the biggest financial decision of a woman's life. Why would you marry a druggie or a waster? Or someone who spends every nickel he gets his hands on, including yours?
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I was brought up to believe that I should get my college education so that I could always support myself. Not to "choose" well.
I can support myself. I did for many years before we were married at ages 38 and 40, respectively.
I don't support myself now, though, because that's what we decided to do. His income is more than enough for both of us, which leaves me free to grow my business. Half a million in revenue last year. It makes me happy. Aren't spouses supposed to make each other happy? And is it really anybody else's business what goes on in a marriage?
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Besides, you can choose Mr Perfect but he may become Mr Imperfect one of these days when he runs off with his secretary (or insert appropriate younger woman). No man or woman should be thinking that their spouse will support them as if they are a little kid.
Oh, believe me, he's far from Mr. Perfect.
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(BTW, all of my friends are women, all have at least a 4-yr degree, and all have money. Except for two of them, that money came from inheriting it from their parents--but just because that happens so much, doesn't mean you should depend upon it.)
No, I wouldn't depend on an inheritance. Too much potential disappointment at the end of that road.
So they don't have to be responsible for themselves, in their own right. Good grief.
Not what I said.
As I pointed out earlier, if your partner is OK with you not working, only working part-time, doing volunteer work or anything you like (I like making money), then it's really not anyone else's place to say, is it?
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Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
So we women are supposed to "choose" well?
I would certainly hope so. It's the biggest financial decision of a woman's life. Why would you marry a druggie or a waster? Or someone who spends every nickel he gets his hands on, including yours?
You are exaggerating for the sake of arguing or being right. No one is talking about marrying a drug addict (or waster, whatever that is.) I married a teacher. Is that not respectable to you? He was quiet and nice--until he entered his second childhood and ran off with one of his high school students. I worked all those years that we were married--we were both teachers. Then I was alone for several years, working. Next marriage was to a nice CPA--does that meet your approval for a good choice? He was fine until his parents passed away, causing flashbacks to VietNam with people dying. He left me, was threatening to jump off bridges, went on spending binges, stole my money, and embezzled $20,000. He was arrested but I kept him out of jail because he was sick, not a true criminal.
You got lucky. That is all.
Aren't spouses supposed to make each other happy? And is it really anybody else's business what goes on in a marriage?
In a perfect world we would get back the good that we give to others. And, no, since you seem to be so judgmental, maybe you shouldn't be so critical of others' choices. We did the best we could, given the information we had at the time. People change.
As I pointed out earlier, if your partner is OK with you not working, only working part-time, doing volunteer work or anything you like (I like making money), then it's really not anyone else's place to say, is it?
That's a nice way to go, and a nice way to live. It really isn't anyone else's place to say otherwise. After working as a professional for many years, I stayed home to raise the children and manage the household for eleven years, and it worked out well--for those eleven years.
However, I feel it's only fair to warn a woman who is choosing not to work outside the home, by mutual agreement with her husband, that a marriage can end overnight. If and when that happens, there is no way to recover the lost years of salary and promotions and retirement benefits, or the lost years of Social Security contributions. In fact, it may be very difficult to get back into well-paid employment at all, after years out of the work force. This possibility, of course, depends on a woman's age, health, and level of education at the time of the divorce.
I speak from experience. After some really worrying years of searching and very low-earning jobs, I was able to land a halfway decent job, but it was nowhere near the level of pay I once had, and it was in a completely different field of employment. Still, I feel very lucky to have been hired anywhere in my mid-fifties.
Recently I joined the Elder Orphans group on FB. It's supposed to be for older people who are for the most part alone. Today there are over 3K members and the growth has been exponential. I would say the group is about 95% women and it's been an eye opening experience for me! Just today a woman posted she retired in October, and her SS kicks in next month, November. She wanted to know how to afford food with no money. How in the world can this be? How can anyone not consider this? And this person is not alone. She writes well and doesn't appear to be any flavor of mentally challenged.
Here's what I have learned so far:
1) There are a huge number of women out there who have completely blown away their own retirement because they spent decades caring for their elders/children/disabled children. I am not saying these are not worthy endeavors, just stating the issue is very real. Now they are starting to need the same services they provided for others and there is no one to help them. Financially or otherwise.
2) Too many of us worked for too long at jobs with low pay and very few, if any, benefits. And many who did this were well educated, so that's not the answer. Too many of us did 'women's' work.
3) This is a jump but I'm thinking part of the nurturing/caregiving personality traits of many women also allows them to have an attitude that's too que sera sera. They just believe everything will turn out OK. And they will just cope. They fail to advocate for themselves or work towards their own best interests. They care for others, not themselves.
4) Too many of us were taken care of too well. We didn't learn the necessary survival skills. We never quite figured out someone croaks last. And whoever is last better know how to take care of themselves. And we just assumed we would maintain the same lifestyle if our H died.
^^^There are 5 of the above for every person who seems to be relatively well prepared. This forum is a brain trust compared to the general public. Even those of us with pretty modest means are way ahead of the pack. I know a lot of people in the planning stages read this forum. Maybe Elder Orphans can help teach us some hard life lessons. Perhaps the group is just more attractive to those who are going through hard times than it is for average retirees? And everyone keeps asking where are the men!
My mother is in her 60s and will be retiring soon. She and all of her friends are doing very well and have no issues retiring. She did this despite caring for her elders and children.
But you're not saying what has made your mother (and friends) "doing very well" financially and able to retire.
You didn't say whether she (and friends) have had jobs in the working world or her husband provided well for her financially.
Without knowing that, your statement makes no sense and is meaningless.
All you tell us is that she cared for elders & kids.
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