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Old 10-10-2016, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Cochise county, AZ
4,985 posts, read 3,477,182 times
Reputation: 10538

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I chose not to stay committed because my ex had a problem keeping his pants on. In an age where Aids was just beginning to be noticed, I, beside just being angry, didn't want to take the chance of what he could be bringing home. So I left.

I did work my entire adult life though. Didn't make a ton of money but if I live frugally I'll be OK.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:18 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,169,058 times
Reputation: 4537
I have to deal with an "elder orphan" right now, it's my father's (who died recently at the ripe old age of 85) widow, 76, who already related 3 times to me in the smallest dEtails the different phases of my dad's agony from the beginning of his condition (pulmonary fibrosis) up until his last breath on his deathbed ("I understood he was dead because he didn't react anymore and he had hat funny foam oozing from his mouth"). I'm bracing already for her fourth testimony, but I can't stand it anymore, how can I tactfully get her to understand I'm fed up ?
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,685 posts, read 17,651,107 times
Reputation: 27772
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
Very unkind
It may be unkind but it's basically a reality. Many people around here who are in their 70s/80s were unable to finish a high school level education. Many worked at local factories and mines. Education isn't pushed around here like it is up north and in major cities.

Yes, the people on this board have a lot more offer than most people on the street here do
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Old 10-10-2016, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
9,018 posts, read 7,782,871 times
Reputation: 12277
I am 74. My generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children. As long as they were getting by then all would be OK especially if they had a pension plan. Many of them also tried as best they could to pay for their children's college or at least contribute.

As the economy changed away for company cradle (steady work) to grave (pensions) many failed to adapt. That is one big reason we see so many poor elderly orphans that are barely getting by especially the woman who left the economics up to their husband.

I followed the tradition (marry, children, stay at home wife) but got divorced when the children were 4 & 6 years old.
I paid alimony and child support. My ex did go to work (hourly wage, low level jobs) but she barely scraped by in life. When she retired, she moved into subsidized housing and lived a meager life.

In my 30's I married a professional woman. We each made a good living and as we opted not to have children, we lived very well. We also put a goodly amount away for investments, retirement, etc. and we lived a very nice life. Candidly had I stuck with my ex in that life style, I doubt I would have gotten anywhere in life.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,905 posts, read 25,364,805 times
Reputation: 26428
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I would love too!

I've noticed the NP trend here also; since around 2006-2007 maybe.

I'm scared but I'm not ready to stop hoping. Things change & I'm "only" 48. Just last year my son finally was approved for some services he had been on a waiting list for (maybe 2+ YEARS).

These included some limited funds for respite services & therapy. He's a great kid; I'm 100% sure that I've done the right thing by him.

It's just scary to read the experiences of other caregivers who also "did the right thing" & are now headed for poverty.

Ageing is NOT for wimps; thats for sure.
I agree and it's hard to think that doing the right thing can carry such severe penalties.

Now you are well educated and capable of working for a decent wage. But still you would end up with nothing to show for all that work, probably negative income after paying for fuel and expenses, after paying for skilled nursing for your son.

And you are better paid than most women! So where does that leave everyone else? Not everyone can go back to work. And even if you can, most of those craptastic jobs are hard work. Harder than you can imagine sitting in your nice safe office. Ever wonder why so many older poor people can't walk? It's from decades of forced physical work, on their feet.

I can tell you for sure I worked harder at the craptastic jobs than I ever did at the decent jobs! And there aren't many decent jobs left for anyone, and even fewer for old people! Go back to work is not always a valid response.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,250 posts, read 8,572,788 times
Reputation: 35698
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I am 74. My generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children. As long as they were getting by then all would be OK especially if they had a pension plan. Many of them also tried as best they could to pay for their children's college or at least contribute.

As the economy changed away for company cradle (steady work) to grave (pensions) many failed to adapt. That is one big reason we see so many poor elderly orphans that are barely getting by especially the woman who left the economics up to their husband.

I followed the tradition (marry, children, stay at home wife) but got divorced when the children were 4 & 6 years old.
I paid alimony and child support. My ex did go to work (hourly wage, low level jobs) but she barely scraped by in life. When she retired, she moved into subsidized housing and lived a meager life.

In my 30's I married a professional woman. We each made a good living and as we opted not to have children, we lived very well. We also put a goodly amount away for investments, retirement, etc. and we lived a very nice life. Candidly had I stuck with my ex in that life style, I doubt I would have gotten anywhere in life.
Of course! You're always better off as a DINK!...apparently even after paying alimony and child support - maybe less than what is mandated now.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:39 PM
 
5,432 posts, read 3,464,353 times
Reputation: 13714
I do not agree at all that "our generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children".

I feel this is very far from accuracy. I graduated from high school in 1965, from university in 1970, and then it was on to graduate school.

Staying home with children never ever entered my mind nor was it ever considered a way to live for myself and many or most of my contemporaries.

The major way to live for myself and female contemporaries was to have a career and make our own money. Marriage was fine, but it did not mean not having a career.

And females who had children did not 'stay home to care for children" for a lifetime or long period, and were not encouraged to do so. Not having a career or staying home for a lifetime or long period was a 1950's scenario.

On the other topic, 'elder orphans' are not defined by poverty or economics or amount of money to live on - elder orphans are defined as people who have no spouse or no partner, no children, and no living relatives or just relatives who are not active in their lives.

Last edited by matisse12; 10-10-2016 at 03:37 PM..
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Central NY
4,691 posts, read 3,263,277 times
Reputation: 12031
My two kids, one born in 1962 and the other 1964, were taken care of by stay-at-home mothers while I worked.

I just added that to confuse the issue.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,079 posts, read 17,418,579 times
Reputation: 41635
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I am 74. My generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children. As long as they were getting by then all would be OK especially if they had a pension plan. Many of them also tried as best they could to pay for their children's college or at least contribute.

As the economy changed away for company cradle (steady work) to grave (pensions) many failed to adapt. That is one big reason we see so many poor elderly orphans that are barely getting by especially the woman who left the economics up to their husband.

I followed the tradition (marry, children, stay at home wife) but got divorced when the children were 4 & 6 years old.
I paid alimony and child support. My ex did go to work (hourly wage, low level jobs) but she barely scraped by in life. When she retired, she moved into subsidized housing and lived a meager life.

In my 30's I married a professional woman. We each made a good living and as we opted not to have children, we lived very well. We also put a goodly amount away for investments, retirement, etc. and we lived a very nice life. Candidly had I stuck with my ex in that life style, I doubt I would have gotten anywhere in life.
Above poster, age 74, born in 1942.
Below poster, age 69, born in 1947.

It is only a five year difference in age but a HUGE difference in overall thinking. The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963 and it made a tremendous difference in how people thought of women and how women thought of themselves and their future.

Matisse, my sister graduated from HS just four years before you, in 1961. She was valedictorian of her class, the # 1 student out of over 600 students, an A in every single class for all four years, National Merit Finalist, won basically every top scholastic award in her HS.

Guess what? The HS guidance counselor advised her not to go to college because she "was not smart enough" and told her that she should "just get married and have children". The HS guidance counselor!!! It was shocking!

When my sister was selected for Phi Beta Kappa, still a straight A student, she send the guidance counselor a letter telling him that she was very glad that she did not take his very poor advice.

Another interesting thing, even though she was valedictorian, she was not allowed to speak at her HS graduation because as administration told her "only males were allowed to speak". So, the # 2 and # 3 students in her class (males) gave the commencement speeches. BTW, my sister was an excellent public speaker, during that year she was the top speaker in a state wide public speaking competition.

IMHO, there was a dramatic change in thinking right around that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not agree at all that "our generation was brought up to marry, have children, and most wives stayed home to care for the children".

I feel this is very far from accuracy. I graduated from high school in 1965, from university in 1970, and then it was on to graduate school.

Staying home with children never ever entered my mind nor was it ever considered a way to live for myself and many or most of my contemporaries.

The major way to live for myself and female contemporaries was to have a career and make our own money. Marriage was fine, but it did not mean not having a career.

And females who had children did not 'stay home to care for children" for a lifetime or long period, and were not encouraged to do so. Not having a career or staying home for a lifetime or long period was a 1950's scenario.

On the other topic, 'elder orphans' are not defined by poverty or economics or amount of money to live on - elder orphans are defined as people who have no spouse or no partner, no children, and no living relatives or just relatives who are not active in their lives.

Last edited by germaine2626; 10-10-2016 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,332 posts, read 4,183,795 times
Reputation: 18405
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Above poster, age 74, born in 1942.
Below poster, age 69, born in 1947.

It is only a five year difference in age but a HUGE difference in overall thinking. The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963 and it made a tremendous difference in how people thought of women and how women thought of themselves and their future.

Matisse, my sister graduated from HS just four years before you, in 1961. She was valedictorian of her class, the # 1 student out of over 600 students, an A in every single class for all four years, National Merit Finalist, won basically every top scholastic award in her HS.

Guess what? The HS guidance counselor advised her not to go to college because she "was not smart enough" and told her that she should "just get married and have children". The HS guidance counselor!!! It was shocking!

When my sister was selected for Phi Beta Kappa, still a straight A student, she send the guidance counselor a letter telling him that she was very glad that she did not take his very poor advice.

Another interesting thing, even though she was valedictorian, she was not allowed to speak at her HS graduation because as administration told her "only males were allowed to speak". So, the # 2 and # 3 students in her class (males) gave the commencement speeches. BTW, my sister was an excellent public speaker, during that year she was the top speaker in a state wide public speaking competition.

IMHO, there was a dramatic change in thinking right around that time.
No kidding! And the transition lasted a lot longer than many people realize! I'm sure there were big regional differences in how quickly things changed, too.

I was born in 1963, the same year The Feminine Mystique was published. I was a straight-A student, fascinated by all things science, with an IQ that put me in the top 2% of the population. (I found out as an adult from my mother that when I started elementary school the local school district wanted to send me to a special school for gifted kids, at a time when that was rare. My mother nixed the plan.) At my first meeting with my high school guidance counselor, I told the counselor I wanted to be a physician. My counselor's reply? "Oh, honey, you're not SMART enough to be a doctor!" (As a practicing physician today, I can look back at this and laugh - but I also wonder sadly how many female students actually listened to this sort of nonsense and gave up on the idea of a career in the sciences before they even made it into college.)

Did I mention that my guidance counselor was a woman? And that this took place in a suburb of Chicago, not some rural Hicksville?

My high school class was also the very first one that allowed the radical educational change of allowing the girls to sign up for shop class/woodworking and auto mechanics, and the boys to sign up for cooking and sewing classes. Just one year earlier, students had no choice: the males HAD to take the "masculine" classes and the females the 'feminine" ones, because of course tasks in the home would be gender-segregated.

It's easy today to forget just how much second-wave feminism transformed US society, and how long it took for that change to be complete.
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