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I am from what some might label a disadvantaged background, having grown up in a single-parent household on the wrong side of the railroad tracks in a lower-class community with few economic opportunities. My father didn’t have a college education; he like so many in his generation lied about his age & joined the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, he was on a destroyer in the Pacific that was hit by a Japanese Kamikaze killing many serviceman. When I was 12, my dad passed away unexpectedly, leaving behind lots of debt, no assets to speak of, and an unsophisticated widow ill-prepared to be a head of household with 3 children: my older high-functioning autistic brother, my younger quite mentally retarded sister, and me.
My mother grew up on a rural ranch in the '30s where, without exaggeration, they did not have indoor plumbing. They did not have electricity. She attended elementary school in a proverbial 1-room school-house. The school was far away from the ranch, so Sunday nights my grandparents drove my mom to stay with the teacher in her "teacherage" until my grandparents retrieved my mom on Friday afternoon. By "drove" I mean horse-and-buggy, of course.
Yes, my mom, now 89, is still quite unsophisticated when it comes to financial matters. I partially support her, of course, and I bought her a retirement home in a 55+ community about 10 minutes from me in which to live with my autistic brother.
If it were up to me, I would institute financial literacy coursework requirements beginning in elementary school. If the purpose of school is to help prepare our children to be good citizens, I personally believe at least basic financial literacy should be as much of a requirement as, say, basic civics, history, English, and math.
But that's just me, and of course my own experiences color my view.
Last edited by SportyandMisty; 10-12-2016 at 11:49 AM..
Pointing out the obvious, sometimes a health problem makes retiring necessary.
I do not understand the statement 'best that they just die'. Millions of people all over the world live a meager existence and to say they all might as well just die is mind-boggling.
(including the women in this thread in the U.S. who are living meagerly)
Also, there are different and varying degrees of a meager existence.
The post you quoted said "die in the saddle". Meaning, keep working until death rather than retire in poverty. That's different from saying "just die".
He chose her because he loved her, and because he didn't judge her on her appearance - unlike her and his bank account.
Quote:
I see you're into the drama, but it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Grown-ups make their own decisions. Probably everyone else should mind their own business.
Into the drama? WTF are you even talking about?
Quote:
You'd have to ask my husband what I brought to the table.
What does that mean in a marriage which is an equal partnership? If one falls sick or is disabled he cannot count on the other to help?
I've heard it said that marriage isn't always 50-50. Sometimes through the vicissitudes of life, a committed partnership may be 80-20 for a while, maybe 90-10 either way, depending on the circumstances and the abilities of the individuals in the marriage.
I'd say that's true, from the perspective of 37 yrs of marriage here.
I am from what some might label a disadvantaged background, having grown up in a single-parent household on the wrong side of the railroad tracks in a lower-class community with few economic opportunities. My father didn’t have a college education; he like so many in his generation lied about his age & joined the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, he was on a destroyer in the Pacific that was hit by a Japanese Kamikaze killing many serviceman. When I was 12, my dad passed away unexpectedly, leaving behind lots of debt, no assets to speak of, and an unsophisticated widow ill-prepared to be a head of household with 3 children: my older high-functioning autistic brother, my younger quite mentally retarded sister, and me.
My mother grew up on a rural ranch in the '30s where, without exaggeration, they did not have indoor plumbing. They did not have electricity. She attended elementary school in a proverbial 1-room school-house. The school was far away from the ranch, so Sunday nights my grandparents drove my mom to stay with the teacher in her "teacherage" until my grandparents retrieved my mom on Friday afternoon. By "drove" I mean horse-and-buggy, of course.
Yes, my mom, now 89, is still quite unsophisticated when it comes to financial matters. I partially support her, of course, and I bought her a retirement home in a 55+ community about 10 minutes from me in which to live with my autistic brother.
If it were up to me, I would institute financial literacy coursework requirements beginning in elementary school. If the purpose of school is to help prepare our children to be good citizens, I personally believe at least basic financial literacy should be as much of a requirement as, say, basic civics, history, English, and math.
But that's just me, and of course my own experiences color my view.
What is this thing about financial literacy? Its basically just adding and subtracting. You have this much money, you spend this much and you have this much left over. They even teach negative numbers. So if you spend too much you have less than nothing.
The basics are there - its the self control that can't be taught - maybe it can who knows.
I'm in a new chapter in my life and I am trying to volunteer more. The things I've seen just this week - the things people do to put their financial life on the skids - just astounds me.
What is this thing about financial literacy? Its basically just adding and subtracting. You have this much money, you spend this much and you have this much left over. They even teach negative numbers. So if you spend too much you have less than nothing.
The basics are there - its the self control that can't be taught - maybe it can who knows.
I'm in a new chapter in my life and I am trying to volunteer more. The things I've seen just this week - the things people do to put their financial life on the skids - just astounds me.
Financial literacy also includes understanding compounding interest, how banks work, what the various types of investments are, etc. People who lack such knowledge often do not have the discipline to save because they can't get over the notion of "giving their money to someone else" - the only time they want to "give" money is to spend it.
Financial literacy also includes understanding compounding interest, how banks work, what the various types of investments are, etc. People who lack such knowledge often do not have the discipline to save because they can't get over the notion of "giving their money to someone else" - the only time they want to "give" money is to spend it.
I, too, wish I had been taught financial matters. My father was well-off, but got offended when I tried to talk about money. I guess that's a generational (WW2) thing. Money was not discussed. He helped us set up a business of our own (way back in the '70's), but suggested I work "off the books" which went on for 8 years. So I lost all that potential SS. I wish I had known better. Dumb youth.
It would be great if school taught banking, investments and so forth. I never had enough money to worry about it, but now at retirement am realizing my lack of knowledge. But my mother got away with never dealing with a checkbook, the bank, or putting gas in the car (much less a job!). What happened!!
Recently I joined the Elder Orphans group on FB. It's supposed to be for older people who are for the most part alone. Today there are over 3K members and the growth has been exponential. I would say the group is about 95% women and it's been an eye opening experience for me! Just today a woman posted she retired in October, and her SS kicks in next month, November. She wanted to know how to afford food with no money. How in the world can this be? How can anyone not consider this? And this person is not alone. She writes well and doesn't appear to be any flavor of mentally challenged.
Here's what I have learned so far:
1) There are a huge number of women out there who have completely blown away their own retirement because they spent decades caring for their elders/children/disabled children. I am not saying these are not worthy endeavors, just stating the issue is very real. Now they are starting to need the same services they provided for others and there is no one to help them. Financially or otherwise.
2) Too many of us worked for too long at jobs with low pay and very few, if any, benefits. And many who did this were well educated, so that's not the answer. Too many of us did 'women's' work.
3) This is a jump but I'm thinking part of the nurturing/caregiving personality traits of many women also allows them to have an attitude that's too que sera sera. They just believe everything will turn out OK. And they will just cope. They fail to advocate for themselves or work towards their own best interests. They care for others, not themselves.
4) Too many of us were taken care of too well. We didn't learn the necessary survival skills. We never quite figured out someone croaks last. And whoever is last better know how to take care of themselves. And we just assumed we would maintain the same lifestyle if our H died.
^^^There are 5 of the above for every person who seems to be relatively well prepared. This forum is a brain trust compared to the general public. Even those of us with pretty modest means are way ahead of the pack. I know a lot of people in the planning stages read this forum. Maybe Elder Orphans can help teach us some hard life lessons. Perhaps the group is just more attractive to those who are going through hard times than it is for average retirees? And everyone keeps asking where are the men!
The system is rigged against women on purpose. Women are underpaid because men as a group want it that way. It matters not the occupation or the skills. Men as a group want women to be dependent on them so men in return can get sexual access to them through marriage. The free domestic labor is a bonus, but it is at bottom all about sexual access to women's bodies. Starving women virtually guarantees they "choose" marriage over poverty.
Of course women can still be poor in old age even if married, but never-married and long-divorced women are the worst off financially. It is all by design.
It is an uncomfortable statement, I am aware, but it is the truth. Independent women are loathed by this male-dominated culture.
Until women get in more positions of political power, this horrid state of affairs will not change.
Your sexism and utter hogwash about women's "attitudes" are duly noted. It has nothing to do with "attitude." It is virtually impossible for women who are not born privileged to survive independently of men in a culture which deems women are not worthy of surviving independently of men.
Sorry if the truth hurts. You can save and save and save, but one job loss or one health crisis, and everything you have worked for your entire life is gone. If you are single, it is all on you. There is no man to bail you out when you have lost everything.
A little more empathy by the OP towards women would go a long way in my book.
Last edited by tonysam; 10-12-2016 at 03:51 PM..
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Money education
