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Old 10-13-2016, 11:38 AM
 
71,515 posts, read 71,694,121 times
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for us medicare is just a bit cheaper when combined with a supplement . in fact compared to working medicare and supplement are more than we paid prior .

i paid 6800.00 for 2 of us in pretax dollars

now i pay 6200 for myself on cobra and about 4k for my wife's medicare and supplement with a 2k deductible on the supplement in after tax dollars
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
You keep saying that, but you haven't indicated how you would do that. The only expenses you've noted so far are $416 for property taxes in this post, plus another $400 for water, electric, gas, cable and phone in an earlier post. So that leaves $1,184 for everything else including the following items:

Homeowners' Insurance -
Car Insurance -
Life insurance (if applicable)
Gas for your one car
budgeting for required maintenance or repair of car
budgeting for required maintenance or repair of house (roof, hvac, painting, etc.)
food/groceries
personal care items
haircuts/hair stylist
pets (if applicable)

Moreover, you're being a little disingenuous by stating you won't have any health-related expenses because they'll be coming out of your HSA. First of all, that assumes that you will both stay relatively healthy for the next 5-10 years (or however long until you retire) so that your HSA balance will build up during that time. Secondly, and more importantly, those payments out of your HSA are still monthly expenses! Just because you're paying them from out of your HSA rather than from out of an IRA or 401(k), doesn't negate the fact that they are, in fact, expenses. I'm not sure why you consider such payments by you for health insurance and other health-related expenditures to not be expenses simply because you have them saved up and you will be paying for them from out of your HSA account. How would that be any different than me paying for glasses, contact lenses or a medical appointment from funds I take out of my IRA? Going by your rationale, no one really has any monthly health expenses if they pay for it from a savings account. With all due respect, that really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Another way to look at this is to say Couple #1 needs $4,000/month to live on, including having to pay$1,000/month for all health-related insurances and expenses, so they withdraws $$4,000/month from their 401(k)'s. Couple #2 also needs $4,000/month to live on, including having to pay the same $1,000/month for all health-related insurances and expenses, but they have an HSA account, so they withdraw $3,000/month from their 401(k)'s and pay the other $1,000 from their HSA account.

Now, can you honestly and logically state that Couple #1 is spending $1,000/month on health-related items and expenses, but that Couple #2 has no such expenses because the money was withdrawn from an HSA account?


Point taken on the healthcare and HSA and I honestly didn't even think about that because we separated healthcare from regular living expenses since we already have somewhat of a set plan for that set aside and that may change between now and retirement too. SO, aside from healthcare, we could live on 2k per year.


I totaled the other items you listed and all of them combined average right at $789.00 per month and I overestimated on a couple of items. So that puts us at $1973 per month. Again, no luxuries at all, this is just getting by. I could reduce it down even more but I do like my 2 tiny yorkies to eat high quality food and get groomed professionally from time to time. They are our weakness.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:47 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,548 posts, read 39,934,465 times
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My SA area monthly costs (for both of us):
$147 Property Taxes (Covered by renting out main house, we live in a cabin on property)
$110 Utilities (Electric + internet) On Well and septic, so no monthly expense (Covered)
$117 home insurance (higher rates in TX than my WA props due to OTHER TX areas that have more risk) (Covered)
$10 trash (share cost with 4 neighbors) (Covered)
$100 food and entertainment (plenty of free college and music events in Hill Country, we volunteer at venues for free attendance)
$140 for Dino fuel -gas powered (ick) car, lawn mower, chain saw, and MC (WVO is free and VERY ez to get in TX, for the 'other' cars / tractors, dozers / trucks) ~ 50% deductible as per maintaining income property IRS rules
$20 MAX for car repairs / service ($35 cars that run a million miles don't cost much to maintain, or insure)deductible
$33 car / truck / MC insurance ~ 50% deductible
$40 Pets / livestock (free?) eggs and meat...

No HOA, self haircuts (Flo-Bee ),
$300 / month HC (Sharing network)
$100 / month for garage sale 'treasures' (resold on eBay for 5-10x)

$717 / month GROSS
$236 / net / out of pocket SA TX expenses

$3420 NET POSITIVE cash flows from nearby props (5 min)

= $3182.33 / month EXTRA... for FUN food and games (such as BBQ, & flying back and forth to PNW, or anywhere else (NZ last yr at this time))

(Similar situation in my PNW 'summer home' EXCEPT for the $1200/ mo property taxes, where I had to add another income property to cover that)

When / if I live until SS age I will be RICH!!! (in spite of no pension after 99 yrs of 40hr/wk equivalent employment) working 3 jobs age 15 - 49, + dairy farm boarding school (8 yrs) + 32 yrs of doing elder care for disabled parent

Surprises happen, expect that The whole thing could tumble down tomorrow. (and very well may with 1 'health event') plan for that too! (Keep a $800 ticket to Thailand booked for HC needs)
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:48 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,277,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
for us medicare is just a bit cheaper when combined with a supplement . in fact compared to working medicare and supplement are more than we paid prior .

i paid 6800.00 for 2 of us in pretax dollars

now i pay 6200 for myself on cobra and about 4k for my wife's medicare and supplement with a 2k deductible on the supplement in after tax dollars
Mom was viciously attacked by a dog at age 60... the owners filed bankruptcy and when mom retired she was un-insurable for several years due to the attack... and when she could get coverage it came at a high price... until medicare kicked in.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:22 PM
 
8,191 posts, read 11,908,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I'm truly amazed when I read posts of those needing 8 to 10k a month just to cover bills in retirement.
I didn't say that I "need" $8k-$10k, I said that's what we spend. In fact, we actually spend over $10k/month because my earlier post didn't include travel and entertainment expenses. I already listed some expenses we could cut if necessary; others would be the $500/month we spend in restaurants, the $300 for haircuts/styling, the $75 pet grooming, etc. That said, I don't see how it is possible for a recent retiree (50s-60s) to live in a major metropolitan city on $2k/month. Our property taxes ($1000) and condo fee ($780) alone comes to almost $1,800/month. Homeowners' insurance on both properties amount to $641. Our health-related expenses (including BCBS premiums) are roughly $900, and our other insurance (LTC, life, car, homeowner policy riders, etc.) premiums come to exactly $775.

So just with those non-discretionary expenses above, we're over $4k. ($4,096 to be exact.) Now add in $315 for two electric bills ($245 +$70), $358 for cable, Internet & cell phone, $60 for water and sewer, and $500 for groceries and personal care items, and we're now over $5,000/month. ($5,329 to be exact.)

And I still haven't listed any expenses for our cocker spaniel (roughly $400/month when you include food, medical, and grooming) and the $333 for annual service on both the Maserati and the Jaguar. Now we're over $6k/month ($6,062) and we haven't so much as spent $10 for a movie ticket or even $1 at a McDonald's drive-thru!

So there you have it; $6k/month, not including other expenses such as gas for the cars, and budgeting for other items such as tires and brakes; budgeting for household repairs and items that will wear out (HVAC, roof, appliances); eyeglasses and contact lenses; dental cleanings and budgeting for other dental items that might arise such as root canals or even fillings; hair cuts and hair styling; landscaper and pest control services; dining out occasionally (or more than occasionally, lol); entertainment expenses (movies, theater tickets, sporting events, etc); and, of course, travel.

Add it all up and it comes to quite a monthly nut. We go a little overboard with our travel and entertainment, so we spend over $10k/month. But even without those expenses, we're at around $8k. Now that I've delineated our expenses, I'd be very interested in seeing those of one of the people who claim that it is easy to live on $2k/month in a major metropolitan city.

Any takers?


ETA: Just realized I forgot other categories such as charitable contributions and gifts to family and friends on holidays and special occasions. I was going to add a third category that I had realized that I left out, but I forgot it again as I was typing this edit, lol. Another example of old-age CRS syndrome kicking in.

Last edited by MadManofBethesda; 10-13-2016 at 12:28 PM.. Reason: add additional info
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,548 posts, read 39,934,465 times
Reputation: 23673
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I didn't say that I "need" $8k-$10k, I said that's what we spend. .....I'd be very interested in seeing those of one of the people who claim that it is easy to live on $2k/month in a major metropolitan city.

Any takers?
I had no problem doing that in Bangkok last yr (living under $2k/ month)
Singapore is a bit of a struggle due to housing costs, so i now stay in JB (10 min north in Malaysia, but VERY metro!)
Malaysia My Second Home Official Portal - MM2H Official Portal

Planning for Manila and Quito in the near future.

living NEAR rather than IN helps... Do that in Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Venice, San Sebastian, San Antonio (60 miles out), Portland (16 miles out), Denver (50 miles out). I despise stoplights, pollution, and noise, so to keep out of prison, it is best for me to keep out of the city.

YSMV
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:38 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,277,138 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I didn't say that I "need" $8k-$10k, I said that's what we spend. In fact, we actually spend over $10k/month because my earlier post didn't include travel and entertainment expenses. I already listed some expenses we could cut if necessary; others would be the $500/month we spend in restaurants, the $300 for haircuts/styling, the $75 pet grooming, etc. That said, I don't see how it is possible for a recent retiree (50s-60s) to live in a major metropolitan city on $2k/month. Our property taxes ($1000) and condo fee ($780) alone comes to almost $1,800/month. Homeowners' insurance on both properties amount to $641. Our health-related expenses (including BCBS premiums) are roughly $900, and our other insurance (LTC, life, car, homeowner policy riders, etc.) premiums come to exactly $775.

So just with those non-discretionary expenses above, we're over $4k. ($4,096 to be exact.) Now add in $315 for two electric bills ($245 +$70), $358 for cable, Internet & cell phone, $60 for water and sewer, and $500 for groceries and personal care items, and we're now over $5,000/month. ($5,329 to be exact.)

And I still haven't listed any expenses for our cocker spaniel (roughly $400/month when you include food, medical, and grooming) and the $333 for annual service on both the Maserati and the Jaguar. Now we're over $6k/month ($6,062) and we haven't so much as spent $10 for a movie ticket or even $1 at a McDonald's drive-thru!

So there you have it; $6k/month, not including other expenses such as gas for the cars, and budgeting for other items such as tires and brakes; budgeting for household repairs and items that will wear out (HVAC, roof, appliances); eyeglasses and contact lenses; dental cleanings and budgeting for other dental items that might arise such as root canals or even fillings; hair cuts and hair styling; landscaper and pest control services; dining out occasionally (or more than occasionally, lol); entertainment expenses (movies, theater tickets, sporting events, etc); and, of course, travel.

Add it all up and it comes to quite a monthly nut. We go a little overboard with our travel and entertainment, so we spend over $10k/month. But even without those expenses, we're at around $8k. Now that I've delineated our expenses, I'd be very interested in seeing those of one of the people who claim that it is easy to live on $2k/month in a major metropolitan city.

Any takers?


ETA: Just realized I forgot other categories such as charitable contributions and gifts to family and friends on holidays and special occasions. I was going to add a third category that I had realized that I left out, but I forgot it again as I was typing this edit, lol. Another example of old-age CRS syndrome kicking in.
I still think this is a lot of money but you don't have to answer to anyone on how you spend your money.

Living in the heart of the SF Bay Area is a major metro area with very high cost of living compared to just about anywhere Stateside.

Mom's property tax on her 800k home is about $175 per month... utilities average $70 and insurance for home and car another $200 a month... her lovely Australian Shepard thankfully has never needed any medical care and vaccines are dirt cheap at the pet fairs... 5 years with 27,000 miles on her car is about one tank of gas per month... and she is very generous with her charitable contributions...

A month in Europe typically cost about $1500 for airfare and expenses... $700 airfare deals and $200 a week pocket change.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:50 PM
 
852 posts, read 929,745 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I didn't say that I "need" $8k-$10k, I said that's what we spend. In fact, we actually spend over $10k/month because my earlier post didn't include travel and entertainment expenses. I already listed some expenses we could cut if necessary; others would be the $500/month we spend in restaurants, the $300 for haircuts/styling, the $75 pet grooming, etc. That said, I don't see how it is possible for a recent retiree (50s-60s) to live in a major metropolitan city on $2k/month. Our property taxes ($1000) and condo fee ($780) alone comes to almost $1,800/month. Homeowners' insurance on both properties amount to $641. Our health-related expenses (including BCBS premiums) are roughly $900, and our other insurance (LTC, life, car, homeowner policy riders, etc.) premiums come to exactly $775.

So just with those non-discretionary expenses above, we're over $4k. ($4,096 to be exact.) Now add in $315 for two electric bills ($245 +$70), $358 for cable, Internet & cell phone, $60 for water and sewer, and $500 for groceries and personal care items, and we're now over $5,000/month. ($5,329 to be exact.)

And I still haven't listed any expenses for our cocker spaniel (roughly $400/month when you include food, medical, and grooming) and the $333 for annual service on both the Maserati and the Jaguar. Now we're over $6k/month ($6,062) and we haven't so much as spent $10 for a movie ticket or even $1 at a McDonald's drive-thru!

So there you have it; $6k/month, not including other expenses such as gas for the cars, and budgeting for other items such as tires and brakes; budgeting for household repairs and items that will wear out (HVAC, roof, appliances); eyeglasses and contact lenses; dental cleanings and budgeting for other dental items that might arise such as root canals or even fillings; hair cuts and hair styling; landscaper and pest control services; dining out occasionally (or more than occasionally, lol); entertainment expenses (movies, theater tickets, sporting events, etc); and, of course, travel.

Add it all up and it comes to quite a monthly nut. We go a little overboard with our travel and entertainment, so we spend over $10k/month. But even without those expenses, we're at around $8k. Now that I've delineated our expenses, I'd be very interested in seeing those of one of the people who claim that it is easy to live on $2k/month in a major metropolitan city.

Any takers?


ETA: Just realized I forgot other categories such as charitable contributions and gifts to family and friends on holidays and special occasions. I was going to add a third category that I had realized that I left out, but I forgot it again as I was typing this edit, lol. Another example of old-age CRS syndrome kicking in.


I can now understand how you can't "see" how others can live on 2k per month. $500 per month for dining out????? Geez Louise, we've never spent that much eating out even when we splurge every now and then and go to the most expensive restaurants in town before/after seeing a show at the Majestic. I was actually surprised when I looked at how much we spent eating out last month, only $127 total for the month and we eat out about once per week. BUT, as stated before, we don't eat much at all. Two salads and one entrée that we share is all we need and sometimes just a dinner salad each is all we need.


$300 for hair cuts!!!!! Is that per month??? $400 per month for your pet???? Good Lord do you take it to the puppy spa every week???? I don't know where you live in the SA area but your numbers are way off from what is the norm for property taxes and property insurance, unless you live in a giant house. Our house is only 2100 sq ft and runs us a little under 5k per year in property taxes i.e. 416.00 per month.

Last edited by CLR210; 10-13-2016 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:53 PM
 
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we eat out once a week and a typical dinner for 2 no where special is about 70 bucks .

we do a few lunches too during the week when we are out doing our photography so we must do close to 400-500 a month . sometimes more when we have the kids and grand kids with us .
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:58 PM
 
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Knowing your costs and especially hard costs is key to planning...

I'm amazed how many people have no idea or spend freely around the first of the month forcing severe cutbacks later in the month.

There are adults that never balance their checkbooks...

It isn't for me to Judge but coming up short is on them...

My Grandfather always had this very old wooden plaque over his desk... actually had two of them.

Prosperity is earning a dollar and only needing 99 cents.

and

If you're so damn smart why aren't you rich?
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