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Old 10-24-2016, 10:47 AM
 
8,872 posts, read 5,154,226 times
Reputation: 10160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The point was philosophical, not political. The sentiment just happened to be expressed by a politician. And philosophy is very relevant to retirement. Some people regard the concept as good and wonderful. Placing positive value on the idle tinkering and bothering the kids and grandkids that consumes them after they no longer work. I consider retirement a spiritual form of death, like walking into the waiting room and reading the magazines prior to non-existence. However, that is only my opinion, and it is unpopular, and I recognize that most people hold an entirely different opinion.

While I love tinkering and the idle construction of silly chores and diversions as a brief timeout, I would never stop working to make the choice to embrace that kind of activity full time. The idea of sitting around and golfing, fishing, gardening, etc., strikes me as an absurd way to spend one's last years of existence. However, to each his own. Live and let die...
To me "retirement" means no longer need to rely on income from a job to support myself. It doesn't mean activity is now limited to silly chores and diversions.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,700,326 times
Reputation: 35450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Ooops...
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:01 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,170,095 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Surely you've heard of me. I moved from the PNW to Ohio after I retired.
Starting to see some folks head to the Mid Atlantic.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:02 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,170,095 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The Kennedy quote is one of the most odious sentiments ever expressed, demanding sacrifice as a central virtue, when it is anything but a virtue. Kennedy was a collectivist swine. The correct and moral quote? "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for yourself".
Ah yes ... the GI Generation ... what a bunch of "collectivist swine" and all that.

Sacrifice if for wusses and commies.

Lookin' out for #1!

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Old 10-24-2016, 08:09 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,380,904 times
Reputation: 20439
Just imagine if everyone only thought of number 1... what a great country that would make.

No more volunteer youth sports, civic pride, helping your neighbors, going the extra mile...

For many years I have adopted several neighborhood storm drains through a city program... saves the city a bundle and glad to help...

Did not mean to get the thread off on a tangent by posting my step-grandfather proudly declining Social Security even into his 80's and never accepting a dime... He was simply grateful for what he had and knew it was the opportunities American afforded to an immigrant...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-25-2016 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,769 posts, read 10,867,395 times
Reputation: 16652
Throughout our working years, we watched others at about our income level buy lavish houses, new cars every other year, take extensive vacations and other .... and wondered, "How in the world do they afford that?"

But, when it came to early retirement, we had no debt, a paid-off mortgage, a strong income, college and wedding for the kids paid-off and a comfortable investment/cash position. Eight years into retirement, we've lived comfortably, traveled extensively, stayed busy and still haven't tapped into IRA's or 403b's and will not do so until RMD's kick-in. Meanwhile, many of our high-rolling peers continued to work for several years -- some finally retiring with significant mortgages and debt.

IMO, the key to the successful retirement many claim to want -- is living within one's means, planning and saving (rather than simply hoping for the best) -- and avoiding an excessive debt load. Beyond financial considerations, it helps to have a life outside of the job prior to retirement.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:25 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,380,904 times
Reputation: 20439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post

IMO, the key to the successful retirement many claim to want -- is living within one's means, planning and saving for the future - and avoiding an excessive debt burden.
That's it in a nutshell plus Health in later years.

For decades this was the plan... pay off the house and debt before retirement.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,954 posts, read 7,930,827 times
Reputation: 11183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Just imagine if everyone only thought of number 1... what a great country that would make.

No more volunteer youth sports, civic pride, helping your neighbors, going the extra mile...

For many years I have adopted several neighborhood storm drains through a city program... saves the city a bundle and glad to help...

Did not meant to get the thread off on a tangent by posting my step-grandfather proudly declining Social Security even into his 80's and never accepting a dime... He was simply grateful for what he had and knew it was the opportunities American afforded to an immigrant...

I consider it acceptable to address this even though it is off topic. You can't let a blatantly misleading and incorrect post just lie there, even if it was deposited by a moderator.

Everyone has always thought primarily about number 1, everyone thinks primarily about number 1, and everyone will always think primarily about number 1. That is the natural and correct state of being for a rational animal, aka, a human. YOU DO IT. I DO IT. MOTHER BLOODY TERESA DID IT. So don't play games with me. Sacrifice is NOT the natural or desirable state for any animal, including Man.


Now, correctly regarding oneself as one's primary concern on the planet does not prevent cooperation, trade, and volunteering to help others. In fact, trading aid to others in anticipation of receiving help during a future time of adversity is perfectly rational, logical, and correct.


But make no mistake. EVERYONE IS OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOVED ONES. And that is natural, correct, expected, and in fact, it couldn't be any other way given our nature and metaphysical construction.


Looking out for #1 is indeed good, and makes the world go round, and causes progress, and advances civilization. In fact, it is one of humanity's cardinal virtues and best features.


SACRIFICE, demanded or offered, is EVIL! Now let's talk social security...
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:53 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,380,904 times
Reputation: 20439
Americans just want to have retirement...

My point is at least one person, a family member in fact and someone I looked up to was not interested in accepting Social Security and he paid into the program since inception back in the 1930's.

I always found this to be inspirational... perhaps a character flaw but inspirational none the less.

As mentioned... no one in my family has ever had a pension... it was not something the farming side of the family ever thought of...

As family members on the farm aged... they did different things to help until they couldn't.

My own Father never wanted to retire... each day, even getting Chemo and having Dialysis was a new challenge to overcome and he was at his business up until two weeks before he passed... to borrow a phrase... He Did it His Way and went out on his own terms.

It may be nothing more than the Greatest Generation was use to sacrifice having gone through the Great Depression before any Government Safety Net existed? People made do and didn't expect much.

Retirement means different things to different people...
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,954 posts, read 7,930,827 times
Reputation: 11183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Americans just want to have retirement...

My point is at least one person, a family member in fact and someone I looked up to was not interested in accepting Social Security and he paid into the program since inception back in the 1930's.

I always found this to be inspirational... perhaps a character flaw but inspirational none the less.

As mentioned... no one in my family has ever had a pension... it was not something the farming side of the family ever thought of...

As family members on the farm aged... they did different things to help until they couldn't.

My own Father never wanted to retire... each day, even getting Chemo and having Dialysis was a new challenge to overcome and he was at his business up until two weeks before he passed... to borrow a phrase... He Did it His Way and went out on his own terms.

It may be nothing more than the Greatest Generation was use to sacrifice having gone through the Great Depression before any Government Safety Net existed? People made do and didn't expect much.

Retirement means different things to different people...

Your father was an honorable man and a role model based on your description. We need more of him. Combine his character with correct philosophical training, and we would have a country that would blow away the rest of the world in terms of achievement, progress, wealth, and quality. Not to mention a population that would save for a fabulous retirement from the first day they worked because it would be part of the basic training. But instead, we have the Kant-Kennedy-Europe model. It's a utter and unspeakable tragedy.
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