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Old 10-22-2016, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
From your previous post, I understand why you didn't. We gotvoursvyearscago without the certainty of our current financial situation. We keep it because by current standards and costs it is such a great deal and we are our old enough guys to be closer to possibly needing it. However if we go into a CCRC with their own insurance built in it will look be redundant
I remember when my MIL was complaining that her husband's LTCi did not have inflation protection. This was when they were living in a CCRC and he needed to be moved to the skilled nursing unit for what I believe was rehab. (He later moved in full time because of dementia). This tells me that the SNF part of the CCRC charged additional fees. Have you asked about this and if so, what did you learn?
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
one thing we don't want to do is make our care the responsibility of our kids . <snip>

one of the worst things parents can do to their kids is drop their long term care burden on their children . that never ends well .
I believe parents should check out the Caregiving forum if they have no clue about the burdens placed on children. (This is in addition to possible legal ramifications imposed by many states for children to financially support their impoverished parents, i.e. reimburse the state for their parent's Medicaid charges.)

I'm not advocating that all parents need to purchase LTCi. I don't think I would buy it if I could self insure or if my policy did not pay for home care. However, I always encourage people to make informed decisions and in order to do this, you need to know the facts.
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,545 posts, read 39,924,861 times
Reputation: 23653
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I believe parents should check out the Caregiving forum if they have no clue about the burdens placed on children. (....I always encourage people to make informed decisions and in order to do this, you need to know the facts.
At age 17, when my parents got ill and went bust, I found I had very little control over them, and there was a lot of debt to repay to family and friends, in addition to FT medical care for my dad for the next 32 yrs.

That experience certainly skewed my plans and savings, and dramatically changed my attitude & priorities. I asked my kids to not be as wayward as my parents. So far, so good, BUT neither have HC anymore, so if they get injured or terminally ill, I will be in another situation with a financial and moral choice. Caring for others. My own DS is headed to demise and we are in the USA HC gap. No coverage, well below medicare age. Btdt so many time
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Old 10-22-2016, 12:00 PM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
Reputation: 11681
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I remember when my MIL was complaining that her husband's LTCi did not have inflation protection. This was when they were living in a CCRC and he needed to be moved to the skilled nursing unit for what I believe was rehab. (He later moved in full time because of dementia). This tells me that the SNF part of the CCRC charged additional fees. Have you asked about this and if so, what did you learn?
CCRC's are structured differently and fall into a couple of basic classes.

Buy in Based. For a significant cash buy in you are admitted to the program. There are additional fees which can be a one time LTC plan. In the case of one place we are/were interested in that was 54k per person. In addition there was a monthly fee of any where from the mid to upper $3,000 per month range to about $7,900 per month. The buy in fee was based on the unit you purchased. Units ranged from 500K to about 900K with the most expensive units being estate homes about 3,000 plus sq foot. There was a financial review board and basic guideline depending on age was income of 1.6 times the monthly fee and cash assets up to twice the buy in fee. If you had your own LTCi you still had to get theirs and could seek reimbursement from your private insurance. While this is a traditional model it is one of the more expensive ones.

The other model becoming more popular and making more sense to many is a pay as you go model with each higher level of service becoming more expensive. This lends itself to having the following resources.

Fixed income in excess of all the monthly costs up to Skilled Nursing Care
Considerable liquidity to be able to self COLA and afford life beyond the monthly fee
LTCi

The facility we have at this point become affiliated with did at first have a mixture of units for sale (flats) and condo's for rent. There was little interest on the part of folks to buy the flats and they are being converted to rental units. None of this is inexpensive and are being investigated and planned for by folks like us in their mid to late 60's who want to know options and plan for the financing of. Their skilled nursing unit at multiple levels of care at multiple prices. The big unknown is for couples not knowing if they could down the road need different care levels at a price for each.

Most CCRC's are more male than female and often the death of the male is what enables the wife to pay. I suspect also many have pensions and that is what helps get them in and stay in.
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Old 10-22-2016, 12:03 PM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
Reputation: 11681
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I remember when my MIL was complaining that her husband's LTCi did not have inflation protection. This was when they were living in a CCRC and he needed to be moved to the skilled nursing unit for what I believe was rehab. (He later moved in full time because of dementia). This tells me that the SNF part of the CCRC charged additional fees. Have you asked about this and if so, what did you learn?
We went to a summer function with the residents at one place. We talked and chatted with a couple we guessed in their mid 70's. She was good but he had developed cancer and the resulting chemotherapy created memory loss. The advantage they had is that all of the residents knew along with staff and could keep their eyes on him as they did with each other. If they saw him wondering they would bring him back to his unit etc. He was able to stay with his wife independent living. On his own he would not have been.

Your neck of the woods is interesting because you have a wide range of incomes and a retirement industry catering to a much narrower range.
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Old 10-22-2016, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
CCRC's are structured differently and fall into a couple of basic classes.

Buy in Based. For a significant cash buy in you are admitted to the program. There are additional fees which can be a one time LTC plan. In the case of one place we are/were interested in that was 54k per person. In addition there was a monthly fee of any where from the mid to upper $3,000 per month range to about $7,900 per month. The buy in fee was based on the unit you purchased. Units ranged from 500K to about 900K with the most expensive units being estate homes about 3,000 plus sq foot. There was a financial review board and basic guideline depending on age was income of 1.6 times the monthly fee and cash assets up to twice the buy in fee. If you had your own LTCi you still had to get theirs and could seek reimbursement from your private insurance. While this is a traditional model it is one of the more expensive ones.

The other model becoming more popular and making more sense to many is a pay as you go model with each higher level of service becoming more expensive. This lends itself to having the following resources.

Fixed income in excess of all the monthly costs up to Skilled Nursing Care
Considerable liquidity to be able to self COLA and afford life beyond the monthly fee
LTCi

The facility we have at this point become affiliated with did at first have a mixture of units for sale (flats) and condo's for rent. There was little interest on the part of folks to buy the flats and they are being converted to rental units. None of this is inexpensive and are being investigated and planned for by folks like us in their mid to late 60's who want to know options and plan for the financing of. Their skilled nursing unit at multiple levels of care at multiple prices. The big unknown is for couples not knowing if they could down the road need different care levels at a price for each.

Most CCRC's are more male than female and often the death of the male is what enables the wife to pay. I suspect also many have pensions and that is what helps get them in and stay in.
My in-laws were very fortunate. They moved into a very new CCRC over 20 years ago and purchased a house on the river. As in, you could walk out the side door and you'd be a stone's throw away from a dock. IIRC, they bought the home for about $200,000. FIL had at least two pensions and MIL had one. Both collected Social Security. They also had plenty of liquid assets. After my FIL died, my MIL became frail and her friends were dying off. She was eventually moved to another CCRC to be closer to the son with medical POA. It was really very sad. She had a plan, she executed it and she still ended up "alone", although she did become "friends" with her private aides.

For now, I'll stick with the LTCi for home care. If I become incapacitated, it won't matter if I'm in an independent SNF or the SNF in a CCRC. I don't want to end up in either.
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Old 10-22-2016, 06:58 PM
 
5,425 posts, read 3,445,259 times
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Not sure what you mean when you say your MIL ended up "alone". Doesn't most everyone end up alone if their spouse dies before them or if they are divorced and do not have another spouse or partner? (sometimes one's children are in the picture)

And you also mention your MIL's son to whom she moved to be closer to. If her son happened to be in the picture when she died.... then that's not being completely alone, is it?

Perhaps you are saying that your MIL had no friends and no spouse when she passed away. That doesn't seem particularly unusual.

Yes, it would be nice if friends were involved, but you said her friends preceded her in death. That would seem quite common. And if frail and elderly or sick, making new friends is not always an option.

Not sure what you're saying when you say "It was really very sad. She had a plan, she executed it and she still ended up "alone", although she did become "friends" with her private aides." What is it you think should have happened after her husband died?
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Old 10-22-2016, 07:55 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,418,168 times
Reputation: 1971
The CCRC's claim to fame is that you age in place. You can start in a completely independent apartment, move to assistive living and then to SNF. If that process is 20 years then you should develop a community. Seems like a decision was made to move closer to the son so she lost a major benefit of the CCRC.
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
Not sure what you mean when you say your MIL ended up "alone". Doesn't most everyone end up alone if their spouse dies before them or if they are divorced and do not have another spouse or partner? (sometimes one's children are in the picture)

And you also mention your MIL's son to whom she moved to be closer to. If her son happened to be in the picture when she died.... then that's not being completely alone, is it?

Perhaps you are saying that your MIL had no friends and no spouse when she passed away. That doesn't seem particularly unusual.

Yes, it would be nice if friends were involved, but you said her friends preceded her in death. That would seem quite common. And if frail and elderly or sick, making new friends is not always an option.

Not sure what you're saying when you say "It was really very sad. She had a plan, she executed it and she still ended up "alone", although she did become "friends" with her private aides." What is it you think should have happened after her husband died?
She would have been happy had she stayed at the old CCRC. Although she could no longer swim laps in the pool, she was still playing bridge, had other acquaintances and was very familiar with the staff. That was her home. At the new CCRC, nothing. She was rebuffed when she tried to join bridge games. She was not allowed to leave the place very often because she might fall or it was too cold outside or too hot outside...etc. She was no longer part of a community, she lived among strangers. She was "alone".
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Old 10-23-2016, 02:48 AM
 
71,492 posts, read 71,674,131 times
Reputation: 49074
ccrc's are just way way to expensive where we are to even be a thought . they are all very high net worth developments . high net worth by ny standards
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