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Old 10-23-2016, 02:51 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
My in-laws were very fortunate. They moved into a very new CCRC over 20 years ago and purchased a house on the river. As in, you could walk out the side door and you'd be a stone's throw away from a dock. IIRC, they bought the home for about $200,000. FIL had at least two pensions and MIL had one. Both collected Social Security. They also had plenty of liquid assets. After my FIL died, my MIL became frail and her friends were dying off. She was eventually moved to another CCRC to be closer to the son with medical POA. It was really very sad. She had a plan, she executed it and she still ended up "alone", although she did become "friends" with her private aides.

For now, I'll stick with the LTCi for home care. If I become incapacitated, it won't matter if I'm in an independent SNF or the SNF in a CCRC. I don't want to end up in either.
what you need as well is a sizable chunk of dough even with ltc for in home care . many times just to stay in the house will require expensive modifications which insurance will not cover . this is another reason i am not thrilled with those hybrid life insurance policy's . you have to tie up way to much cash which might be needed for mod's .
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:27 AM
 
243 posts, read 119,864 times
Reputation: 560
I looked into buying it. The problem I ran into is that I was trying to buy enough for 3 years. Most people die before that time period is up.

Let's say 3 years is $150,000 because I don't remember the exact numbers. They didn't pay your LTC bill until the $$$ ran out. They paid 1/36 of the pot of money you bought each month. You had to pay the difference. The company was Mutual of Omaha.

Another LTC company (Genworth, I believe) was increasing the premium each year by the % the cost that nursing homes went up.

Insurance companies sell insurance to make $$$. When they discovered these weren't profitable, they exited the business and/or redesigned future plans to insure profitability.

I just couldn't see where I could do this and sustain my other goals of saving for retirement.

My father died when I was five, and an aunt persuaded my mother to put the insurance money into a trust fund for my sister's and my college education. It was a great move, I am sure, because it probably wouldn't have been there when we needed it. But I also remember my mother not having money to take me to the doctor or buy food . . . and moaning about how all the insurance money was tied up.

I think at the time I would have rather eaten. I think if I had to choose between eating and paying for LTC in my later years, I would still choose eating. And I'm not a slacker when it comes to retirement savings. I save 20% of my income in addition to my 7.5% pension contribution. I also have to contribute to SS. So the only place LTC can come from is the retirement savings.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:30 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49222
i have gensworth and got no increase .

most people who need long term care are not in nursing homes . they are in assisted living , in home care and all the facitiy's below a snf like my dad was in . since medicaid cut the budget for snf's in 2000 there are loads of facility's set up that are above assisted living and below snf's .

they are expensive too and folks live a whole lot longer . even my dad who had a severe stroke lived like that for 6 years so do not look at snf numbers . they are just a tiny piece of the overall picture . they also do not include the current generation which is living a whole lot longer and has not reached the age of care needed yet . .
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:24 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
My in-laws were very fortunate. They moved into a very new CCRC over 20 years ago and purchased a house on the river. As in, you could walk out the side door and you'd be a stone's throw away from a dock. IIRC, they bought the home for about $200,000. FIL had at least two pensions and MIL had one. Both collected Social Security. They also had plenty of liquid assets. After my FIL died, my MIL became frail and her friends were dying off. She was eventually moved to another CCRC to be closer to the son with medical POA. It was really very sad. She had a plan, she executed it and she still ended up "alone", although she did become "friends" with her private aides.

For now, I'll stick with the LTCi for home care. If I become incapacitated, it won't matter if I'm in an independent SNF or the SNF in a CCRC. I don't want to end up in either.
Eastern shore? I know there were some nice ones over there. Including one of the chains that went bankrupt but were bought out by a hedge fund that has them currently financially stable.
Even todays buy in fees will in 20 years seem cheap. That's another side of the coin getting in before the buy in fees raise at a greater rate than the monthly fees.
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: SW US
2,218 posts, read 2,036,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post

most people who need long term care are not in nursing homes . they are in assisted living , in home care and all the facitiy's below a snf like my dad was in . since medicaid cut the budget for snf's in 2000 there are loads of facility's set up that are above assisted living and below snf's .
Thank you for pointing this out. My father spent only his last 2 months in a SNF. Before that he was at home and not requiring much home care. He was 95. My mother moved to an apartment in a nice place that had both independent living and assisted living. You bought the care level you needed. She spent 2 months in hospice in her same apartment at the end of her life, and the place doubled her care cost just for that time period. It seemed reasonable and she was able to pay the increase. She was also 95. Four years there cost her about $200k total, including the last 2 months.

Not everyone needs to prepare for years at a SNF care level, and personally I would rather die than live that way. My grandmother did that in the early 80's and it was not a quality of life I would have wanted.
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,848,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
Thank you for pointing this out. My father spent only his last 2 months in a SNF. Before that he was at home and not requiring much home care. He was 95. My mother moved to an apartment in a nice place that had both independent living and assisted living. You bought the care level you needed. She spent 2 months in hospice in her same apartment at the end of her life, and the place doubled her care cost just for that time period. It seemed reasonable and she was able to pay the increase. She was also 95. Four years there cost her about $200k total, including the last 2 months.

Not everyone needs to prepare for years at a SNF care level, and personally I would rather die than live that way. My grandmother did that in the early 80's and it was not a quality of life I would have wanted.
This might not be up to you though. Still at that age of 95 and a cost of 200k for 4 years is not bad at all. Of course 36 years from now that cost will probably be 400k or more.

As mathjak has pointed out it isn't everyone that needs LTCi. But for many the questions are can I afford it? Can I afford not to have it?
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:34 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
This might not be up to you though. Still at that age of 95 and a cost of 200k for 4 years is not bad at all. Of course 36 years from now that cost will probably be 400k or more.

As mathjak has pointed out it isn't everyone that needs LTCi. But for many the questions are can I afford it? Can I afford not to have it?
You are forward thinking. I wonder how many participants in this forum are fiscal conservatives along with being small government believers. If fiscal responsibility wins out and government shrinks who is going to pay for their elder care if they can't? Medicaid and Medicare are unsustainable as many would say. So who will it be if not us. Generation X? Again this is sorta of a difficult discussion to have as the cost of LTCi as a percentage of our income is so very different with participants. For some impossible, for others a challenge and for others ok what's the next bill to be paid.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,243 posts, read 8,532,850 times
Reputation: 35674
Most articles are worthless and give the same very basic information. I'm well beyond that...so I start going to websites. Well, they are soooo sure everyone is an idiot that the most they'll do is give you a "calculator" to figure out the average costs in your state. OMG - I don't need LTC today...I'm not 90...I can work a computer and I have a brain. Do any of them have a calculator that will let you put in a dozen different variables around the type of care and period of time you want to cover and spit out a cost? No.

So you have to make an appt. with a salesperson and listen to how many hours of subjective crap. I don't want that...but I guess I will do it. And the odds that I will feel good about making a decision? Probably less than 1 in 10. And that's one big reason I hate the whole concept of LTCi.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:44 PM
 
243 posts, read 119,864 times
Reputation: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i have gensworth and got no increase .
This was for new policies going forward.

There are a lot of great policies that people bought before the companies knew so much about it. But they do know now, and they've priced the policies more accurately and have harder limits on how long the coverage lasts.

The main thing for me was that I couldn't access the $150,000 from Day 1. They were betting that I would die before they had to pay the total amount. But that would put me in the position of co-insuring for the 36 months. What if I didn't have the assets for that? What if the cost went up more than the inflation protector covered? What if I couldn't afford it? What if the company went bankrupt?

Too many ifs for me.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,243 posts, read 8,532,850 times
Reputation: 35674
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i have gensworth and got no increase .

most people who need long term care are not in nursing homes . they are in assisted living , in home care and all the facitiy's below a snf like my dad was in . since medicaid cut the budget for snf's in 2000 there are loads of facility's set up that are above assisted living and below snf's .

they are expensive too and folks live a whole lot longer . even my dad who had a severe stroke lived like that for 6 years so do not look at snf numbers . they are just a tiny piece of the overall picture . they also do not include the current generation which is living a whole lot longer and has not reached the age of care needed yet . .
Forbes Welcome

A few excerpts:

Last week, the federal government announced that premiums for nearly all of its existing long-term care insurance policies will increase—by an average of 83 percent. In other words, they will almost double for federal employees and retirees.
...
The result is that 90 percent of long-term care insurers have abandoned the business. Those that have stuck it out have also raised premiums on older policies. Genworth, for example, the largest seller of long-term care policies, has gotten approval from most state regulators for a series of rate increases in recent years.
...

After the announcement, many retired federal employees were outraged by the premium increase and uncertain about what to do. The wife of one long-time fed told me that premiums for her and her husband will increase from about $400 per month to more than $800, or roughly $10,000 annually.


People I suppose can only speak to their personal situations, but please don't act as though the situations you have managed to escape (thus far) don't apply to others.
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