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All of this could have been avoided if my BIL had LTCi.
Depends.
1) there's a difference between MEDICAL costs, and CARE costs. LTC doesn't cover all costs, and depends on his coverage limit if costs have been over a million dollars, I doubt even half of that would have been covered by a policy. (I looked at three year policies, and none had lifetime limits and high as a million dollars)
How much of you BIL costs that would have been covered would have depended on the policy he had. Could have been not much at all. Every little big might help maybe, but I don't think it's fair to say "this all could have been avoided."
What percent of your BIL bills have been MEDICAL vs. care.
If your expenses are 1.5 million a policy with a cap of even a HALF-mill -- sure is better than nothing…but one mill left to pay versus 1.5…at that point does it matter much?
keep in mind though that with non state partnership plans while it is all well and good the insurance bought you time to clear the look back and establish trusts they can be a misery to live with once the insurance runs out .
if Medicaid picks up the bills once insurance runs out the stay at home spouse is restricted to Medicaid income limits which can be quite low.
it sucks preserving a few million in assets and then can't live off them .
so where possible I suggest looking in to whether or not your state has partnership plans and what you get as perks .
many partnership plans are not total asset , but dollar for dollar and they do not protect income .
I'm buying LTCi for the EXTRA money for the ACTUAL care not to hide money to get on Medicaid. My goal is to NEVER be in a Medicaid bed. Never!
I have no spouse, a LIFETIME policy and the assets to cover basic LTC indefinitely.
I do agree that your Plan has to meet your needs and if I was married I'd want to have a plan that covers us both and eliminate any chance of one partner pushing the other into poverty.
most people do not need nor can afford ltc insurance since they do not have enough assets to protect .
but having said that:
ltc insurance is best for those with at least 7 figures in assets. if you are wealthy you likely don't need it and can pay on your own . it is the 1-3 million range that usually benefits . 2-3 million in an area like ny will not cut it very long . we are in that range and need the insurance .
with costs in the area of 120-140k a year today for an snf , plus the money needed to support the stay at home spouse in a high cost of living area , that kind of spending would likely leave the stay at home spouse impoverished if things went on to long .
seeing my dads wife go broke with him in a snf for 6 years has this a priority in our plan .
do not go by statistics . if you did no one would need fire insurance , auto insurance or life insurance while raising a family since odds are way lower nothing will happen in those category's compared to the odds of needing in home care ,assisted living , facility's classified as not snf's but are not assisted living or snf .
in life there are only 2 choices things happen to us or they don't . statistics do not matter to us humans . it is either us or it isn't that is on the wrong side of the statistic .
odds are miniscule we will die at an early age , insurers know exactly how many people will die a year , but they can't tell us who . so we have to protect our family's and assume it is us .
the statistics are very flawed for a few reasons .
the biggest is in 2000 the Medicaid budget for snf was slashed in half. instead of snf's being used for all of those who could not be cared for at home other facility types were set up for those not fully requiring an snf . all those number of people were dropped from the statistics of who needed snf care .
the statistics are also from a generation ago . baby boomers are not of age yet . not only are there 2x as many but they are living much longer .
we are paying premiums for coverage each year now , not off in the future . my 55 year old co-worker fell off a ladder painting , broke his hip and during hip surgery had a paralyzing stroke.
crap knows no age limit when it comes to stuff happening to you . his wife is now impoverished and on Medicaid .
so the question is , if you have assets , do you really want to play Russian ROULETTE with your spouses financial well being if it is you on the wrong side of the statistic ?
^ This. I have a friend here in the Bay Area in the 2 - 3M range ... well, make that, he used to be in that range. His wife has been on an alternating sequence of SNF and home care. Guess what? Here comes the reverse mortgage. The surviving spouse, my friend, is gonna be screwed, and his kids will probably get nothing when he dies.
Hobnob, how much are you paying for that policy? Is it through a work discounted group offer? Oh and at what age did you first get it and what have been your increases?
I'm buying LTCi for the EXTRA money for the ACTUAL care not to hide money to get on Medicaid. My goal is to NEVER be in a Medicaid bed. Never!
I have no spouse, a LIFETIME policy and the assets to cover basic LTC indefinitely.
I do agree that your Plan has to meet your needs and if I was married I'd want to have a plan that covers us both and eliminate any chance of one partner pushing the other into poverty.
in our state we don't have to hide a thing . that is our states deal when you buy the partnership plan . no assets are counted nor have a look back nor have to be shifted . if the insurance runs out they pick up the the bill after 3 years . that is the deal and that is why we bought it , certainly not for the 3 years coverage. I don't need insurance for that .
most nice homes here will not accept you if you are on medicaid initially . however if you are paying your own way going in they say they will take a medcaid payment down the road if you are there 3 years later .
that is the beauty of our plan , we start out as a paying customer and if needed down the road a special version of Medicaid called extended Medicaid picks up the tab.
the best part is no income limits are imposed on the stay at home spouse like regular Medicaid .
all assets and income are protected forever with us having to do nothing else but keep the policy .
got our 3rd renewal this week , no increase over last year .
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-19-2016 at 12:27 PM..
All the logic in the world doesn't help when your family is the one affected by a long term care situation, particularly in dementia cases which can linger for a decade.
Our purchase of LTCi was somewhat based on real-life experiences after seeing the lives of friends and particularly the spouses of those needing LTC being decimated in so many ways - financially, mentally, physically and emotionally. We do not want to do that to our family. If that is considered emotional, so be it.
I don't look at the premiums as a possible "loss" but as the peace of mind I personally want - others may differ. We actually feel more free to spend money on travel and other interests as we don't feel pressured to save every dollar in fear of the unknown future.
I have witnessed people losing their homes and jobs trying to care for their loved ones needing care. I have also seen families broken apart, including divorces, by arguments about who contributes what in terms of money and caregiving time. It causes tremendous stress in families. My grown kids are relieved we have LTCi as they are starting to see the chaos caused in their friends' families.
As mathjak said, our plans cover in-home care and assisted living to help us stay OUT of a nursing home. The premiums are not onerous to us. We realize the whole cost will not be covered but it does make a sizable difference.
If you are single, perhaps LTCi is not necessary. I certainly would not count on Medicaid in the future as we have already seen a tightening there. If you are not worried about the lack of insurance, perhaps it is not for you. For me, it was a major source of concern that I did not hanging over my family.
Everyone has to decide what is best for their own family circumstances.
Hobnob, how much are you paying for that policy? Is it through a work discounted group offer? Oh and at what age did you first get it and what have been your increases?
Thanks.
I see what you did there. LOL
My cost is about a pack of smokes a day. It is offered through CalPers but is not subsidized. It is pretty wide open to join if you are related to some one in the CA govt. or University system. I bought late 40's and figured $1,000 a year for 10 years and $2,000 a year for 10 years and $4,000 a year for 10 years so $70,000 total over 30 years getting me to my 80's. I just got the increase to $4,000 a few years earlier than expected but also had the $1000 a year for longer than 10. They made about 10 plans to avoid the increase and even decrease the annual expense but to me it is so cheap for what I'm getting. By my 80's my plan will be paying out over $200,000 a year.
I'm 56 and will revisit LTC later.
I'm single and no kids, and at this point have assets for private for I'd say for three years.
I got quotes from two different agents/firms. One was my mom's financial planner-- who for ME, now, said, just put that policy premium money into your own retirement planning.
My mom had Alzheimer's so that is on my mind, BUT like I said I'm single with no kids.
She never went into a facility. And had enough assets to stay at home with children carrying the care load for two years (close oversight mostly, not day to day care), and aides only the last 10 months.
I also will be retiring NOT in the state I'm working in now. So while I'm vaguely familiar with partnership policies, IF I got one now I would have to see what benefits I'd lose by being in another state. I already know all aspects of the partnership for my current state are reciprocal to my retirement state. And given that my paid off retirement house is already waiting for me in that other state -- I know that's where I'll be. I'm just going to wait at this point. I know it will be more expensive later, but I'll also have saved more and have more assets for my own care if need be. So as of now I'm making the decision to NOT get a policy…… in part because I may have to drop that one and get another one at an older age anyway.
As a single I wonder why married people think we don't need LTCi. My policy pays for in home care
to keep me out of a nursing home. My experience is that the spouse usually provides that care. Without a spouse I will rely heavily on my policy because without it I'll be in a facility.
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