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Old 11-01-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,461 posts, read 5,928,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
To answer your question, Dave, I was a pack a day smoker for over thirty years and never developed any smokers cough nor signs of being a smoker.

My stepmom, on the other hand, died this last January from emphysema. To the poster that said all that suffer from that ballon up, that wasn't the case for my s'mom.

My father was a smoker and never developed the smokers cough. He died from other complications due to diabetes. He had quit smoking 20 years before he passed.

Dave, what you say is absolute truth. When a person dies, the question on the form is 'Was the person a smoker'. If the answer is yes, the death is then attributed to smoking regardless of family history.

Johnny Carson lived in one of the worst polluted cities in the US, I can't help but feel, that contributed to his illness.

The figure of 480,000 deaths a year has been used for many years. Never changing.

I see old people smoking all the time down here. They must be miracles. I don't know how they survived to be in their 80's and 90's. But you better believe that when they do die, their death will be attributed to their smoking. I can only imagine how old they would've lived to be if not for their filthy, need to be ashamed of, have to hide them from the public, habit.

As smoking rates go down, asthma and obesity rates rise. Almost in direct proportion. The rates of lung cancer in never smokers are also rising. Is it just possible that ....nah. That would be crazy thinking....


I stand corrected, someone else was indeed brave enough to step up and offer the same opinion as I have done.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,618 posts, read 9,684,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I already gave the breakdown, I can see why you missed my follow up post. 2 died of prostate cancer. Any link to smoking with this type of cancer is simply speculation. Several others were old when I knew them and simply expired at an old age, 1 died in a car wreck at 65, another of liver disease quite possibly from all the drinking. Those are the ones I know of and not a single one can be pointed directly to smoking. If you were honest with me you would acknowledge that you know of many people who lived to be very old who smoked for decades or died of other non-smoking related causes.


I had questioned the studies and I think my point is vaild. Just because a smoker died of a heart attack does NOT mean the smoking caused it. He could have had a family history, lots of non-smokers die of heart disease too. And even if I bought every figure of those studies again that does not mean that every smoker dies or has a shortened life because they smoked which is obviously the common belief. Many people share my opinion, again based on the reps I continue to receive. I'm apparently the only one willing to say it.

I've read the entire thread and I see both sides to this debate. If I were to go strictly by own family history, I have to say I agree with all you've said. However, I also respect what others have to say and their experiences differ.


I quit smoking on April 7th of this year BUT on June 16th I 'fell off the wagon' and haven't tried again...yet. I will though because, yes, it IS adversely affecting my health and it's scaring me. Back in late March/early April I was really sick with a lung infection thing and it's still affecting me. I get winded waaay to easily and it sometimes affects my job.


As for my 'family history'...I remember back when the ONLY people who didn't smoke in my large extended family were my two grandmothers and, maybe, two aunts. Only two people ever died of cancer...my maternal grandfather and my uncle, his son...and those were stomach cancer. One never smoked and one did his whole life. Not one other family member has ever died of cancer. I think we either die young and tragic or old and worn out. There have been several family who died of things like heart attacks, etc., one from Alzhiemers (sp) and one from alcohol and some of their problems probably could be attributed to smoking all their lives. My granddad did and he died at age 91 sitting in his rocker having a nap after lunch.


Wanted to add on...I am glad that we have all the non-smoking laws we have here. I can remember when we could smoke everywhere and even the grocery store floor would be littered with cigarette butts. Disgusting. At my store they have painted a red line 20 feet from all the doors, strictly a non smoking area. Employees have an area for breaks, etc. and it is far removed from the doors. As a smoker I have always tried to be considerate of others. I also remember when the non-smoking laws went into affect for bars and restaurants. I worked in a restaurant and my boss...a non smoker...didn't want to comply. Well, what he found out was that business actually increased after the ban.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:39 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 6,267,957 times
Reputation: 4143
Default Lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim9251 View Post
I've been told at 65 I'm still smoking!


Anyway, I smoke a pipe (my Missouri Meerschaum corn cob pipe is my favorite) or a nice cigar (partial to Cojimar) while I'm fishing or camping. It is illegal to smoke in a public place. Pot IS legal here (Colorado) but it is illegal to smoke in public (but rarely enforced).


Never smoked cigarettes just never appealed to me.
I think you mean 'Smokin'... and good for you...
Koale
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,461 posts, read 5,928,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I've read the entire thread and I see both sides to this debate. If I were to go strictly by own family history, I have to say I agree with all you've said. However, I also respect what others have to say and their experiences differ.


I quit smoking on April 7th of this year BUT on June 16th I 'fell off the wagon' and haven't tried again...yet. I will though because, yes, it IS adversely affecting my health and it's scaring me. Back in late March/early April I was really sick with a lung infection thing and it's still affecting me. I get winded waaay to easily and it sometimes affects my job.


As for my 'family history'...I remember back when the ONLY people who didn't smoke in my large extended family were my two grandmothers and, maybe, two aunts. Only two people ever died of cancer...my maternal grandfather and my uncle, his son...and those were stomach cancer. One never smoked and one did his whole life. Not one other family member has ever died of cancer. I think we either die young and tragic or old and worn out. There have been several family who died of things like heart attacks, etc., one from Alzhiemers (sp) and one from alcohol and some of their problems probably could be attributed to smoking all their lives. My granddad did and he died at age 91 sitting in his rocker having a nap after lunch.


Wanted to add on...I am glad that we have all the non-smoking laws we have here. I can remember when we could smoke everywhere and even the grocery store floor would be littered with cigarette butts. Disgusting. At my store they have painted a red line 20 feet from all the doors, strictly a non smoking area. Employees have an area for breaks, etc. and it is far removed from the doors. As a smoker I have always tried to be considerate of others. I also remember when the non-smoking laws went into affect for bars and restaurants. I worked in a restaurant and my boss...a non smoker...didn't want to comply. Well, what he found out was that business actually increased after the ban.

Well said.


Look I totally get where the poster with huge family history of tragic, horrible deaths due to smoking is coming from. To that person if you smoke it kills has been the experience. I have tried to acknowledge this in my replies. But it is also fair to look at the other side and the fact is most all of us have known, or known of, dozens of smokers who didn't die from it. Even former smokers count, again once you smoke the risk is there forever.


As for your last part I agree that today's laws are much better but as I said smoke free campuses I think are too intrusive. My mom smoked and I remember how miserable the trip on a rainy day with the windows rolled up were.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: USA
1,815 posts, read 2,243,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
This is what I thought would happen, surprised it took this long.

Please pay attention folks, I never said these things don't happen to smokers. You post as if I am defending smoking, that my position is as it can not harm you and that is simply not the case. I have been arguing that smoking does not always in every case lead to these tragedies which is the common belief and it is showing itself in this thread. It certainly can but it's not a done deal for every smoker, not even close.

Nobody will answer my question so I'll rephrase and throw it out again: Has every single smoker you have ever known in your entire life ended up in the condition the NP described? Do they all have that horrible smoker's cough? Every single one?

Didn't think so.


I understand where you're coming from Dave and the point you're trying to make.


My friend works in a doctor's office. If you are a smoker, then that's the cause of your problem -- smoking. Period. They don't bother to look for any other cause or offer much treatment -- everything is because you smoke and if you stop you will be cured.


My mother smoked heavily and we did the 3 kids in the car, window rolled up smoking, long car trips. Not one of us has asthma or any other disease.


My mother quit several years ago, but a lot of her friends smoke and they are well into their late 70's and 80's and only one has mild COPD.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,618 posts, read 9,684,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Well said.


Look I totally get where the poster with huge family history of tragic, horrible deaths due to smoking is coming from. To that person if you smoke it kills has been the experience. I have tried to acknowledge this in my replies. But it is also fair to look at the other side and the fact is most all of us have known, or known of, dozens of smokers who didn't die from it. Even former smokers count, again once you smoke the risk is there forever.


As for your last part I agree that today's laws are much better but as I said smoke free campuses I think are too intrusive. My mom smoked and I remember how miserable the trip on a rainy day with the windows rolled up were.

I think a lot of it is genes, plain and simple. There are families where cancer is just 'there' and they are prone to get it. Smoking would probably add to the situation but even if they never smoked they are still prone to cancer. Or whatever 'bad thing' runs in a family.


I don't have a problem with any non-smoking venue with the exception of motels. I don't want to have to go outside to smoke. I'm lazy that way and don't like being 'stared at' by other folks. lol Yep, I grew up with those in car smokers too but my parents quit when I was about 13. Up until then one of my 'daily chores' was to go to the corner store to get Mom her newspaper and cigarettes.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:34 AM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,450,730 times
Reputation: 13709
Even if you stop smoking, say for example at age 60 after smoking for 42 years, it can still come back and haunt you, and make your life very miserable when you're 83.

My Mom, at age 83, developed spots on her lungs which were lung cancer from smoking for 42 years earlier, even though she had quit 21 years earlier at age 62.

Rather suddenly she could not breathe and was diagnosed with lung cancer. (one example of anecdotal evidence like this is not particularly important though - I'll go with statistics and scientific evidence instead)

Has it occurred to those who think smoking is over-blown in importance that the scientific and medical studies know what they are measuring and the scientists & health workers know what they seeing, measuring, and comparing with all maladies?

I'll go with the educated scientists who conduct studies & people in health fields who see the harmful effects of smoking daily & those doing the measuring in a scientific way.

And it is not all about dying from smoking - it's also about quality of life when one is older and having to live with diseases. Smoking affects overall health and can affect the quality of life and induce disease or poor health in one's older years. (without dying from it)

No one is arguing that smoking always kills. To keep bringing that up is a straw man and specious reasoning and false equivalency.

It doesn't matter what lay people 'think' about smoking (especially those without any higher education) - I'll go with the educated scientists when weighing risks and outcomes.

Risks and possible outcomes and actual treatment of people with disease out-weighs anecdotal evidence and just 'thinking' something.

Last edited by matisse12; 11-01-2016 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,461 posts, read 5,928,514 times
Reputation: 16156
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
Even if you stop smoking, say for example at age 60 after smoking for 42 years, it can still come back and haunt you, and make your life very miserable when you're 83.

My Mom, at age 83, developed spots on her lungs which were lung cancer from smoking for 42 years earlier, even though she had quit 21 years earlier at age 62.

Rather suddenly she could not breathe and was diagnosed with lung cancer. (one example of anecdotal evidence like this is not particularly important though - I'll go with statistics and scientific evidence instead)

Has it occurred to those who think smoking is over-blown in importance that the scientific and medical studies know what they are measuring and the scientists & health workers know what they seeing, measuring, and comparing with all maladies?

I'll go with the educated scientists & people in health fields who see the harmful effects of smoking daily & those doing the measuring in a scientific way.

And it is not all about dying from smoking - it's also about quality of life when one is older and having to live with diseases. Smoking affects overall health and can affect the quality of life and induce disease in one's older years. (without dying from it)

No one is arguing that smoking always kills. To keep bringing that up is a straw man and specious reasoning and false equivalency.

It doesn't matter what lay people 'think' about smoking (especially those without any higher education) - I'll go with the educated scientists when weighing risks and outcomes.

Risks and possible outcomes and actual treatment of people with disease out-weighs anecdotal evidence and just 'thinking' something.

Did you read the post above about the poster's friend who worked in the doctor's office where they attributed every ailment a smoker has to smoking? This kind of backs up my objection to your stats. Are you really not ready to admit that many of the deaths related to smoking are just labeled that way because the patient smoked? No chance what so ever that the death was family history, diet or weight related? No chance what so ever? Well then you are simply not being fair IMO.


As for your first part I address this earlier and IMO is a huge reason many don't quit. If it was like riding a motorcycle and all the risk would be gone immediately I'm sure more would be motivated to quit. But if you've smoked for 40 years you understand that quitting guarantees nothing other than reducing the risk but never eliminating it. So I'm sure many say why bother to stop something they enjoy.

Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 11-01-2016 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:04 PM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,450,730 times
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I'll go with the educated scientists and other educated professionals who conduct epidemiological & scientific studies or those who treat smokers medically, thanks. Rather than people without higher education or others who just 'think' something.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,461 posts, read 5,928,514 times
Reputation: 16156
So now you are questioning my education? LOL. And totally dismissing the accounts from a doctors office?


Look I said from the beginning that my position is unpopular and I expected push back. But now you are just being nasty.
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