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Old 11-02-2016, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,428 posts, read 21,272,660 times
Reputation: 24270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I'm very sorry for you loss. But you cleary do not understand my position if you believe you have answered my question.

The no smoking in a retirement home is a facinating topic too. Of course the home should be no smoking but can anyone really justify forcing an 85 year old who can barely walk to cross an ice cover road just to be able to smoke? Is it really fair to force an old guy who understands he is in his final years to quit? To me it's like a smoke free campus, they need to accomodate the smokers too by finding a place for them to be allowed to smoke.
Ever noticed when Americans are on yet another witch hunt? The fire in their eyes, the witchy laughter, the finger pointing, the subjectivism, deafness, all black or white! Yup! Once they get started, there's no stopping them, like a herd of buffalo on steroids!

I sometimes wonder when it's ever going to stop, this obsession with looking at a leaf, and failing to see the tree, along with the forest!

The day may come, there may be a Smartphone witch hunt, as the evidence isn't in yet as to how damaging this "21st Century Drug" is to the masses.

All it will take is someone in a Senior Apartment building, getting too carried away playing Candy Crush some night, she leaves something on the stove, and starts a fire, forcing the evacuation of the other seniors in the building!

Then! No Smartphones allowed in senior apartment buildings, and to use it, you must join the smokers on the sidewalks!
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,482 posts, read 5,944,584 times
Reputation: 16181
Oh I don't know about all that. Seems to me banning smoking from a retirement home makes perfect sense. But they should make accommodations for the smokers that don't include walking across an icey road.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: ☀️ SWFL ⛱ 🌴
2,441 posts, read 1,677,570 times
Reputation: 8726
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Yeah we covered this at length. Again to be clear there is an obvious link between smoking and death and other health issues. I have acknowledged this over and over and am ready to move on.

But we have already had a poster say if you smoke your life will be shortened, period end of story. We also had a poster supply links to smoking deaths that according to another poster has not changed in years when we all know the number of smokers has dropped very dramatically over the years. So obviously those figures have to be questioned. So IMO both arguments are nonsense. It can, maybe it will, but there is no proof that it will almost always lead to other illnesses and death yet that is the common belief that I disagree with.
You are looking for an absolute where there is none. Smoking adds up with other negative factors that cause death for many.

Actuaries run the numbers and insurance is cheaper for non-smokers based on those numbers. Maybe you should ask them for their studies and stats? They aren't pulling those numbers out of a hat, not when $$ is involved.

Last edited by jean_ji; 11-02-2016 at 09:13 AM..
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: World
3,668 posts, read 3,528,068 times
Reputation: 2484
I am not endorsing Smoking but what kind of Scientific proof exists that Second hand smoke can cause Cancer? I have seen studies linking even automobile emissions to Cancer. Shall we promote more Public Transportation then?
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:22 AM
 
4,490 posts, read 4,752,310 times
Reputation: 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_ji View Post
You are looking for an absolute where there is none. Smoking adds up with other negative factors that cause death for many.

Actuaries run the numbers and insurance is cheaper for non-smokers based on those numbers. Maybe you should ask them for their studies and stats? They aren't pulling those numbers out of a hat, not when $$ is involved.


Yes... but we must...

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Old 11-02-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 2,082,014 times
Reputation: 9735
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_ji View Post
You are looking for an absolute where there is none. Smoking adds up with other negative factors that cause death for many.

Actuaries run the numbers and insurance is cheaper for non-smokers based on those numbers. Maybe you should ask them for their studies and stats? They aren't pulling those numbers out of a hat, not when $$ is involved.
They certainly do manipulate data to prove what they want it to prove.
Especially when there's money involved and they are allowed to get away with it.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:54 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,989 posts, read 2,302,078 times
Reputation: 16721
In Colorado:
The Colorado Clean Indoor Air Act 2006 prohibits any smoking inside public and private buildings, common areas in hotels and motels, and in at least seventy-five percent of the sleeping quarters within a hotel or motel that are rented to guests.
This does include gaming (casino) establishments.

Smoking is not restricted in areas of assisted living facilities that are designated for smoking for residents. Such areas must however be fully enclosed and ventilated and access in such areas must be restricted to the residents or their guests.

My last cigarette was February 25, 2014. Done under doctors orders to switch to vaping. And it worked. I still vape but have been able to reduce my nicotine intake from 24mg to 10mg.

No more smokers cough & clean bill of health from my last cardiology workup.

I quit because I noticed I did not see many smokers out & about who were older than me (I'm 48)! Meaning they might be dead OR not healthy enough to be out & about; neither scenario sounded very desireable to me. I live at 7,000ft elevation which may be a natural "deterent" for many smokers here.

My dad quit before I was born; the day HIS father died from lung cancer (smoking) at the age of 56. He found it interesting how STRONG the addiction was . In the context of "patterned behavior"; 10 years after he threw his pack of cigs out his car window (leaving the hospital on the day his dad died), when he would sit down at work for a meeting, he would find his right hand groping his left shirt pocket ... to grab his cigarettes ... that had not been there for 10+ years ...

I have not yet developed that "holier than thou" affect you see in non/ex smokers. Catching a second-hand whiff of someone else smoking still makes me "jones" for a smoke!

I do have the ability to be a "living carbon monoxide" meter; in that I have Microcytic Anemia (not hereditary; acquired from traumatic blood loss that was not treated, red blood cells have diminished oxygen carrying capacity). Second hand smoke does NOT trigger it but I can "feel" a forest fire from hundreds of miles away; before you can see the haze in the air, I can tell you it's there.

What is the most brutal is being stuck at a red light with a truck's exhaust pipes right at my window. There are times that I pull away when the light turns green literally gasping for air.

Second hand smoke does not even faze me whatsoever. I think the real threat to our health is coming from the other combustibles we are exposed to & all the "hate" directed towards those smokers huddled in doorways is more a way of making non/ex smokers feel superior to others.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,482 posts, read 5,944,584 times
Reputation: 16181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_ji View Post
You are looking for an absolute where there is none. Smoking adds up with other negative factors that cause death for many.

Actuaries run the numbers and insurance is cheaper for non-smokers based on those numbers. Maybe you should ask them for their studies and stats? They aren't pulling those numbers out of a hat, not when $$ is involved.


It is kind of annoying when posters still don't understand my position. I get why insurance rates are higher, that's a no brainer. Smoking carries higher risks so the smokers rates should be higher.


And I am not looking for an absolute. please pay attention to what I have posted. I have simply been saying from the beginning that the dire prognosis for everyone who smoked is overblown. Not every smoker's life is shortened due to smoking as one poster claimed. Not every smoker ends up in the hospital for the NP to try to help. Many (most?) live long lives and or die from something entirely unrelated to their smoking.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:32 AM
 
4,490 posts, read 4,752,310 times
Reputation: 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
It is kind of annoying when posters still don't understand my position. I get why insurance rates are higher, that's a no brainer. Smoking carries higher risks so the smokers rates should be higher.


And I am not looking for an absolute. please pay attention to what I have posted. I have simply been saying from the beginning that the dire prognosis for everyone who smoked is overblown. Not every smoker's life is shortened due to smoking as one poster claimed. Not every smoker ends up in the hospital for the NP to try to help. Many (most?) live long lives and or die from something entirely unrelated to their smoking.


If you are not understood YET... at post #148 what are the chances? How about agree to disagree? And let it go. If you are just frustrating youself by your persistance.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,223,779 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Yeah we covered this at length. Again to be clear there is an obvious link between smoking and death and other health issues. I have acknowledged this over and over and am ready to move on.

But we have already had a poster say if you smoke your life will be shortened, period end of story. We also had a poster supply links to smoking deaths that according to another poster has not changed in years when we all know the number of smokers has dropped very dramatically over the years. So obviously those figures have to be questioned. So IMO both arguments are nonsense. It can, maybe it will, but there is no proof that it will almost always lead to other illnesses and death yet that is the common belief that I disagree with.
My mom's death certificate indicated smoking "probably contributed" to her non-small cell lung cancer. I found it interesting that the physician hedged his opinion, given that it is still the norm for physicians to relate the cause of death to smoking if the deceased was a smoker. Mom had stopped smoking about 20 years before her death. She had a family history of cancer.

OTOH, my father quit smoking about the same time as my mom. He is currently 90+ years old and although he is still taking his daily walks I suspect that some physicians would probably say his cognitive impairment was caused by his smoking. (Because there is some evidence that smoking can reduce cognitive abilities.) He has no family history of cancer. Zilch.

There are over 300 genes that have been identified as increasing the risk of various cancers. I think most would agree that the environment, genes, smoking and obesity play a role in promoting cancer and/or cardiovascular disease, etc.

Now, if we could just figure out why there is a significant growth in the number of nonsmokers (mostly young females) developing lung cancer.
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