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Old 11-02-2016, 12:14 PM
 
Location: ☀️ SWFL ⛱ 🌴
2,428 posts, read 1,665,603 times
Reputation: 8643

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
It is kind of annoying when posters still don't understand my position. I get why insurance rates are higher, that's a no brainer. Smoking carries higher risks so the smokers rates should be higher.


And I am not looking for an absolute. please pay attention to what I have posted. I have simply been saying from the beginning that the dire prognosis for everyone who smoked is overblown. Not every smoker's life is shortened due to smoking as one poster claimed. Not every smoker ends up in the hospital for the NP to try to help. Many (most?) live long lives and or die from something entirely unrelated to their smoking.
I have been paying attention and you haven't been clear on what you believe other than stating people you know haven't died from smoking. That's a small sampling and antecdoctal at best. I readily admit to being swayed by what I saw working in healthcare, which is mainly sick people and that colors what I think.

If an area I was thinking of retiring to was a haven for smokers, it would affect my decision. I avoid smokers whenever possible.

Last edited by jean_ji; 11-02-2016 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,459 posts, read 5,922,719 times
Reputation: 16151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_ji View Post
I have been paying attention and you haven't been clear on what you believe other than stating people you know haven't died from smoking. That's a small sampling and antecdoctal at best. I readily admit to being swayed by what I saw working in healthcare, which is mainly sick people and that colors what I think.

If an area I was thinking of retiring to was a haven for smokers, it would affect my decision. I avoid smokers whenever possible.

Folks I was ready to let this go a while ago. But when a poster misrepresents my position, then claims I have not been clear in what I believe after I posted it, wait for it, 8 different times I get frustrated. To be I believe that the grave forecast commonly believed for everyone who has smoked is overblown I cited personal examples, I have asked 3 times now if every single smoker you knew died from it directly or indirectly and I got no virtually no responses. Obviously because it doesn't fit the other side of the argument.

So I'm ready to move on and God knows everyone else is too. But I was perfectly clear about my position, said it 8 times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
But it seems pretty apparent to me that the dangers of smoking are bit overblown..... But the common belief that if you smoke it will kill you is simply not backed by the fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I agree. I never posted anything that contradicts this post. I have simply been posting as a response to the common belief that if you smoke it will automatically kill you and that is simply not close to true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
But I completely believe the belief that if you smoke it will kill you simply is not true. There are old people still smoking all over the place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I'm not one to comment about reps I get but I was surprised to see how many I received for my post claiming the dangers of smoking are a bit overstated. Obviously others feel the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Again to be clear I never promoted the act of smoking, just pointing out that the grave forecast for every smoker is overstated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
But just to be clear I never ever never said smoking isn't all that bad for you. My position was the effects of smoking commonly preached that virtually all smokers will die early from it is what I have been challenging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I have been arguing that smoking does not always in every case lead to these tragedies which is the common belief and it is showing itself in this thread. It certainly can but it's not a done deal for every smoker, not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Again I never said it can't happen, I simply stated that the effects are overstated. You and others strongly imply that if you smoke you will end up like your father and that is simply not true.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:32 PM
 
5,425 posts, read 3,445,259 times
Reputation: 13698
You got yourself into a bind (or what you personally might call being misunderstood) very initially because it seemed as if you were quite unaware of the strong correlation and causation between:

smoking and heart disease (cardiovascular disease)

smoking and peripheral artery disease (PAD)

smoking and arterial disease, circulatory disease, pulmonary disease, deterioration of blood vessels

smoking and respiratory diseases which includes COPD, emphysema, & lung disease

smoking and many extensive types of cancer throughout the entire body including pancreatic cancer, liver cancer, and numerous other cancers (not just lung cancer)

You made statements that made it seem as if you were not particularly aware of the above.

And then it was compounded when you kept insisting that scientific studies measuring the harmful effects of smoking are not actually doing scientific measurement or are particularly faulty. (no need to repeat that - we're aware of your position on that)

Last edited by matisse12; 11-02-2016 at 03:45 PM..
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 2,071,342 times
Reputation: 9735
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Folks I was ready to let this go a while ago. But when a poster misrepresents my position, then claims I have not been clear in what I believe after I posted it, wait for it, 8 different times I get frustrated. To be I believe that the grave forecast commonly believed for everyone who has smoked is overblown I cited personal examples, I have asked 3 times now if every single smoker you knew died from it directly or indirectly and I got no virtually no responses. Obviously because it doesn't fit the other side of the argument.

So I'm ready to move on and God knows everyone else is too. But I was perfectly clear about my position, said it 8 times.

As a smoker and now a former smoker, welcome to our hell. Common sense flies out the window in light of the absolute need to blindly accept statistics that just might possibly be twisted to fit the agenda of the zealot anti smoking establishment.

Just an FYI: Nicotine is now being studied for help with Alzheimer's, ADD, ADHD and other brain issues. Nicotine, on its own, is not the bad guy in the equation. In never smokers that have been studied, once the study is over do not crave nicotine. They are now realizing that there is another chemical in cigarettes that make the smoking habit more addictive. They theorize that it may be the MAOI's and the chemical cocktail that are in cigarettes that create the addictive trait.

That is not true for those who did smoke. Once those chemicals are in our system, we are pretty much screwed. Although, for those using the ecig, more than half that use them are able to drop their nicotine content fairly easily. Some even going to zero mg nic. In those cases, they vape to replace that hand to mouth Habit.

I personally will not stop using nic. Alzheimer's runs in my family and if there is a remote chance that nic will help stave off the possibility, I'm taking it.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:59 PM
 
4,479 posts, read 4,739,984 times
Reputation: 9940
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Folks I was ready to let this go a while ago. But when a poster misrepresents my position, then claims I have not been clear in what I believe after I posted it, wait for it, 8 different times I get frustrated. To be I believe that the grave forecast commonly believed for everyone who has smoked is overblown I cited personal examples, I have asked 3 times now if every single smoker you knew died from it directly or indirectly and I got no virtually no responses. Obviously because it doesn't fit the other side of the argument.

So I'm ready to move on and God knows everyone else is too. But I was perfectly clear about my position, said it 8 times.


Heavens, you listing all of this, above, and then seeing it should tell you volumes about yourself.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 2,071,342 times
Reputation: 9735
Quote:
Originally Posted by brava4 View Post
Heavens, you listing all of this, above, and then seeing it should tell you volumes about yourself.
Really it is no worse than those that believe the opposite.

It is what it is. Obviously no one is going to change anyone else's mind.

I just hope that people might just question things instead of blindly believing. It really helps to dig and find out where some of these health organizations get their funding.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,230 posts, read 12,491,644 times
Reputation: 19374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim9251 View Post
I've been told at 65 I'm still smoking!


Anyway, I smoke a pipe (my Missouri Meerschaum corn cob pipe is my favorite) or a nice cigar (partial to Cojimar) while I'm fishing or camping. It is illegal to smoke in a public place. Pot IS legal here (Colorado) but it is illegal to smoke in public (but rarely enforced).


Never smoked cigarettes just never appealed to me.
I switched to a pipe for a year before I quit smoking 25 years ago. I loved pipe smoking. If anybody ever tells me I only have six months to live, the first thing I will do is go out and buy two briars. Most people don't know you have to have two pipes, smoke one and rest one each day, or they get bitter. I favored a mild Cavendish. Smoking a pipe in rush hour traffic was wonderful. I would load the pipe when I left the parking lot, and by the time I got home I would be relaxed and comfortable.

Now that I am retired, rush hour is only an unpleasant memory.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,230 posts, read 12,491,644 times
Reputation: 19374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
As a smoker and now a former smoker, welcome to our hell. Common sense flies out the window in light of the absolute need to blindly accept statistics that just might possibly be twisted to fit the agenda of the zealot anti smoking establishment.

Just an FYI: Nicotine is now being studied for help with Alzheimer's, ADD, ADHD and other brain issues. Nicotine, on its own, is not the bad guy in the equation. In never smokers that have been studied, once the study is over do not crave nicotine. They are now realizing that there is another chemical in cigarettes that make the smoking habit more addictive. They theorize that it may be the MAOI's and the chemical cocktail that are in cigarettes that create the addictive trait.

That is not true for those who did smoke. Once those chemicals are in our system, we are pretty much screwed. Although, for those using the ecig, more than half that use them are able to drop their nicotine content fairly easily. Some even going to zero mg nic. In those cases, they vape to replace that hand to mouth Habit.

I personally will not stop using nic. Alzheimer's runs in my family and if there is a remote chance that nic will help stave off the possibility, I'm taking it.
Coffee also reduces that chance of dementia. Drink at least 2 or 3 cups of caffeinated coffee every day to get the effect.

Nicotine is a wonderful drug. When I was writing system software in assembler, I used to live on coffee and nicotine. After I quit smoking, I often considered taking up the patch for the beneficial effect.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,382 posts, read 21,223,392 times
Reputation: 24210
Often forgotten, tobacco is an herb, with medicinal properties. The safest way to consume tobacco is pipe smoking, followed by cigars, and the worst of the worst, is store-bought cigarettes. It's also serves as an appetite suppressant.

The Native Americans of South America would make a tea out of it and drink the tobacco, which is far safer than smoking store-bought cigarettes.

I use Indian tobacco with no chemicals, and I use the empty filter tubes to make my cigarettes, been doing it for 14 years. Would never consider buying a store-bought cigarette!

We owe our freedom from the British to tobacco, as it was a lifesaver for our country. When Benjamin Franklin went to France to negotiate a loan for help drive the British out, the banks wanted 5 million pounds of tobacco in payment, as the French were already heavily addicted to tobacco.

Thus, a true Patriot of this country uses tobacco in some form or another, no?
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,008 posts, read 13,571,153 times
Reputation: 22095
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Often forgotten, tobacco is an herb, with medicinal properties. The safest way to consume tobacco is pipe smoking, followed by cigars, and the worst of the worst, is store-bought cigarettes. It's also serves as an appetite suppressant. The Native Americans of South America would make a tea out of it and drink the tobacco, which is far safer than smoking store-bought cigarettes. I use Indian tobacco with no chemicals, and I use the empty filter tubes to make my cigarettes, been doing it for 14 years. Would never consider buying a store-bought cigarette!
We owe our freedom from the British to tobacco, as it was a lifesaver for our country. When Benjamin Franklin went to France to negotiate a loan for help drive the British out, the banks wanted 5 million pounds of tobacco in payment, as the French were already heavily addicted to tobacco.
Thus, a true Patriot of this country uses tobacco in some form or another, no?
It's not the type of tobacco, it is combustion that causes the health hazards: When smoking Indian cigarettes you will inhale carbon monoxide, particulate matter, carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and toxic nitrosamines just as you would with any commercial cigarette. I have attended a large number of autopsies (I worked in LE & did forensic work) and if you ever actually saw the lungs of a smoker I can guarantee you that you would figure out some way to quit. In case you are interested, here are some photos: 5 Smoker's Lungs Pictures That Will Shock You | New Health Advisor
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