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Old 10-30-2016, 09:35 AM
Location: North Dakota
7,738 posts, read 9,033,995 times
Reputation: 11128


Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Till 1990s, it was common to see smokers in airplanes, buses, trains around the world. My parents had a matchbox from PANAM and KLM when they travelled abroad. While booking tickets, it was common to be asked Smoking or Non-smoking whether booking for Hotel or Airplane tickets. I remember people smoking while working on their Computers in Offices or even Typewriters. People didnt have to leave their tables for Smoking breaks.

Old Pics of smoking inside airplanes

How would you like to sit next to the cigar and pipe smoker? I like the smell of those but not in a metal tube. Wierd to see a parent smoking next to their kids, seeing as how that's even become taboo. It reminds me of the many car rides with my grandpa when he chain smoked with the windows rolled up. Or going to a restaurant with him and his buddies and sitting in a cloud of smoke. Different time for sure. I'm not condoning smoking next to kids and am a non smoker myself, just commenting on the changing attitudes.
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:13 AM
Location: Chicago area
14,398 posts, read 7,926,626 times
Reputation: 53523
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I get it and I feel the same way about being around smoke. And as a respiratory therapist no doubt you saw the worst side of smoking. I get that too. But that's like working in the emergency room, seeing all the car crash victims, and having a different opinion of the dangers of driving than the rest of us. Face it, your view is slanted by your work experience. A bar guy or construction worker will argue that they see smokers who live long lives all the time.

Again I do not expect to win this debate and I am not in any way trying to say the dangers of smoking are not very real. But I completely believe the belief that if you smoke it will kill you simply is not true. There are old people still smoking all over the place.

Yes you're right that not all smokers die from smoking. I've also seen 90 year old people with extensive smoking histories in the hospital with unrelated issues, but, they are the exception. Every rule has one. I like to explain it this way. Let's say 100 people are lined up to turn a light switch on and off, but that light switch will kill 20 out of the 100 people. Would you stand in line to flip that switch? Yes you may be one of the lucky ones, and then again maybe not. You're playing Russian Roulette when you light up that cigarette. Yes you may be one of the lucky ones, but you may also find out when it's too late that you weren't.

I also have a friend that had stage 3 lung cancer, although it wasn't related to smoking. She has been in remission for nearly 4 years now, and yes, she still smokes

I have seen both sides of the coin when it comes to smokers, and yes you could say that my view is jaded. I would say that most of the patients I saw had smoking related issues. I've seen the destruction and misery and I have to shake my head every time I see someone young playing Russian Roulette with a cigarette in their mouth. Yes they may be one of the lucky ones, but the risk to me far outweighs whatever addictive pleasure you may experience with that nicotine. I view nicotine as just another highly addictive drug best left alone.

For years I've had to suffer from second hand smoke and have resented it. I remember when people smoked in movie theaters when I was very young. I remember suffering and being so sick on a plane to Australia with the second hand smoke. That was 12 hours of agony for me. I also remember gagging and coughing every morning getting ready for school after my father had his inconsiderate morning smoke in the bathroom. Bars and restaurants were another thing I had to avoid as well. It just wasn't fair or right for smokers to pollute my air and I was being forced to smoke against my will. I am so grateful that smokers are not allowed to feed their addiction in my presence. They also became job security for me when I was working. Go ahead, feed my paycheck. Jaded or realist. You decide.

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 10-31-2016 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 10-30-2016, 12:39 PM
Location: SW US
2,218 posts, read 2,036,207 times
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Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Not sure how many times I need to say this but I have acknowledged that there is an obvious link between smoking and other health issues. Now let me ask you a question, be honest. How many smokers have you known and how many have died from it directly (lung cancer) or indirectly with the understanding that the indirect deaths may or may not have been a result of smoking? Every one of us has an aunt, a grandfather, or a neighbor who smoked and lived to an old age. Again my position is smoking can kill you but it's not as automatic as many believe.
My cousin died of lung cancer in her early 50's. Her father died of it, and so did his brother. My grandfather, not related to the others, also died of it. All smokers for most, if not all, of their lives. A friend's mother died of COPD, smoking till the end. So I've known quite a few people who died from smoking. My friends who smoked all quit when it became obvious to most people that it carried a high cancer risk.
Maybe some people have genes to tolerate it better, but I think they don't know which ones yet.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:26 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,932,507 times
Reputation: 6716
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I think smokers could benefit from consideration for others. After all it is the ones with their me-first-and-all-be-damned attitude that reinforce ill will toward people who use tobacco.

No where was I more reminded of this than the last time I visited the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN. Their militant attitude towards smoking anywhere near the buildings combined with serving people who were ill and already not in much of a mood to think of others seemed to cause an excess of littering.

The refusal to place ashtrays near none-smoking signs contributes to messy areas and the curbsides directly across from the clinic and the hospitals were just inches deep in cigarette butts. A distressing sight but not nearly as alarming as all the surgical patients, even shuffling their IV units across the street, to stand in their hospital gowns and relieve their withdrawal symptoms. What a sight.

Another place I see what appears to be unnecessary cruelty in enforcement is local nursing homes. In the winter it can get down below zero. When they can convince someone to push them outside I see the poor old addicts lined up in bitter weather to have a smoke. Is this kind of treatment really necessary as someone is near the end of their life?

I'm a retired health professional so I'm all about healthy habits. But my belief is that you treat the whole patient as he comes to you. There is a time and place for encouraging lifestyle changes and it's important not to cause additional emotional stress during times of trauma and healing, I think.

I know I'm preaching. It's my thing, I guess.
Gosh - Mayo is brutal - isn't it (I go to Mayo JAX - local). No ash trays outside (but I carry a Japanese portable in my purse). The big problem in Mayo Rochester (I've been there twice) is the cold weather.

I still smoke. But am ok for the most part with Florida smoking laws. Which are kind of "in the middle". No smoking in restaurants - stores and the like. But smoking is allowed in most open air areas - like beaches and golf courses. And restaurants with "open air" patios. Guess I've just gotten used to it over the years.

During our Hurricane Matthew evacuation - I wound up in a non-smoking hotel. And dealt with it. Us smokers did huddle outside to smoke. Near the entrance (because of the storm). Which might have annoyed some people. OTOH - the place was full of dogs and cats. Some huge dogs. Looked like Noah's Ark - and some of those pet owners weren't very considerate. Management told us people were letting their pets "do their thing" in the rooms during the storm . Robyn

P.S. I don't much enjoy 10+ hour plane trips to places like Asia where I can't smoke. But take some of those Nicorette type things to deal with them.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:28 PM
Location: Silicon Valley
3,617 posts, read 1,630,406 times
Reputation: 6138
I wish they'd just ban it already rather than socially demonize it. I'll occasionally have a cigarette or a cigar in social circles. It's almost always a group of old friends out for a drink. Nobody has smokes anymore so we go and buy a pack for old times. We always regret it in the morning.

A former division of the company I worked at used to sell the security labels at the bottom of every cigarette pack. While they didn't have a monopoly, they did have all of the states and territories and most of the Native American tribes. Heard the division was sold to a Swiss company. It was a cash cow, but revenues falling 2-3% each year wasn't anything to excite upper management.

It's too bad vaping seems to be getting popular. I'd really hoped to see the end of cigarettes in my lifetime, but hate the fact that the state governments are the biggest addicts. Chastising with one hand and collecting money with the other.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:02 PM
3,455 posts, read 2,329,960 times
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Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
As the poster who took this in a different direction I hope that was OK, lots of threads go off of their original course and it sparks a good debate.

I'm not one to comment about reps I get but I was surprised to see how many I received for my post claiming the dangers of smoking are a bit overstated. Obviously others feel the same
Dave, I like ya. But I would have to respectfully disagree with you. As an NP, I see so many bad effects of smoking in my patients, especially those smoking long term. I just can't be sanguine or even neutral about smoking.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:15 PM
3,455 posts, read 2,329,960 times
Reputation: 6998
To answer the OP's question, if you retired to NJ, you would probably not be bothered by smoke. Unless you went to the casinos, where 25% of the casino floor is a "smoking OK" area. It has been years since anyone was able to smoking in a restaurant, school, hospital, etc.

I remember when ashtrays were on every table in restaurants. And patients smoked in hospital rooms. And their doctors lit up with them. Eeek! Since cigarette smoke is one of my big migraine triggers, I am more than happy to live where I don't even have to think about the possibility of someone lighting up next to me at the diner.

Of course, I don't know anyone who retired to NJ. I'm sure there are some people, if I look hard enough... Everyone I know is talking about leaving NJ for retirement. (High property taxes being the biggest complaint.)
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:23 PM
Location: San Diego
1,084 posts, read 713,592 times
Reputation: 1350
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Till 1990s, it was common to see smokers in airplanes, buses, trains around the world. My parents had a matchbox from PANAM and KLM when they travelled abroad. While booking tickets, it was common to be asked Smoking or Non-smoking whether booking for Hotel or Airplane tickets. I remember people smoking while working on their Computers in Offices or even Typewriters. People didnt have to leave their tables for Smoking breaks.

Old Pics of smoking inside airplanes

Really enjoyed these pics. Thanks
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Old 10-31-2016, 03:47 AM
40 posts, read 21,968 times
Reputation: 68
I'm a smoker. I try to be extremely polite about it, though - have been for years. I'll even refrain from it in my own home if my visitor is a non-smoker. While lately my place reeks of bacteria and mold (long story, and thankfully we are SO out of here soon) so I haven't given a rat's behind for the smell of smoke, usually it's hard to tell because I try to keep the place aired out enough - and we make our own smell-pretties - to where it won't bother anyone.

That being said - I've known quite a few people who have passed on due to various lung cancers, heart failures, etc - none of whom smoked a day in their life. And I'm in agreement with those who said that smoking has been demonized beyond what it actually causes and that anti-smoking bans & laws are turning us all into the equivalent of lepers, all while the states make an absolute killing on the per-pack tax they keep increasing. I've known a lot of smokers and none of them have died from it or any complication relating to it.

I do feel for those who don't want/can't stand the second-hand smoke (ex-smokers being the most fanatical and they can be so freakin' rude, but I still understand the base of their desire). There are many inconsiderate people in this world, with their vehicle bass actually causing heart palpitations to their ultra-weird-colored headlights causing instant migraines and blindness driving at night, drivers who create third lanes on two-lane roads then try to (or do) run you off.. smokers who are inconsiderate are up there with the major pains in the butt of the world. But don't lump us all in with them.. many of us don't make others around us enjoy our habit with us, and take care to not reek of smoke and smell like walking ashtrays. And to the person who said MD/Northern VA does not have many smokers? We're here - we just have to hide.

When I was young I didn't really get how it affected others around me, but then that was when smoking was allowed everywhere and wasn't even commented on. Even in the military, we could smoke wherever we wanted. I really became aware of it when I became a parent. I grew up with my dad smoking in the car with the windows up, but I certainly didn't do that to mine. Many of my smoking habits changed when I had my first child, even though I was unable to quit (then or any other time I've tried). So if anything good has come from the politically biased ostracizing of smokers, it's the awareness that it does affect others around the smoker.

There's also the fact that many people don't smoke commercial cigarettes. They smoke natural herbs or tobacco without all the tar and additives. There are people who smoke clove cigarettes or smoke a cigar or a pipe (again many with natural smokables). Much of the tarry smell you normally associate with "cigarette smoke" comes from the commercial ones with all the stuff added to them to make them addictive (the items added to make them addictive was purposeful. And people wonder why it's so difficult to quit).

I recently read about the plight of a much older gentleman who is being threatened with eviction because of his smoking - he lives in a HUD apartment complex. HUD is going smoke-free and they are encouraging property owners to grandfather in their smoking residents, but the place he lives is saying HUD gives them the right to either make them quit or boot them out. These people don't have much longer, so why not let them live out their lives without the stress of being homeless? Just because someone is a non-smoker that doesn't give them the right to stomp on people who do. Consideration goes both ways.
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:33 AM
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,462 posts, read 5,930,681 times
Reputation: 16156
Couple of comments:

Of course I would not turn on a light switch if I had a 20% chance of dieing, that is why I am not a smoker. Again to be clear I never promoted the act of smoking, just pointing out that the grave forecast for every smoker is overstated.

As for Winwalker's post I'm sorry to read of all of those smoking deaths. But reading further you have known 5 and that's a lot more than most of us. Still if you going so far as to pull "a friend's mom" then your net is wide enough to have been cast over probably 100 smokers or more. And you know of 5 who have died out of over 100.

As for the NP again you see the higher numbers because you work in health care and obviously see the tragic results. But remember for every patient health care professionals like you see there are dozens of smokers you never see.
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