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Forgive me if this is the wrong place for this but it seems retirement-age people are the most likely to have dealt with it.
My MIL passed away in early September. DH is the successor trustee or executor, if you will. My MIL was not forthcoming about her finances during her life; only during the last six months did she urge us to start looking over insurance policies, bank accounts and so forth. We felt weird about it then but I wish we had asked her more questions.
...because it seems like she never met a bank she didn't like and open 6 or 12 accounts at.
She was careful during her life to keep her total assets below the amount that would trigger estate tax. So that's good.
We spent about an hour today with a Chase banker, who showed us MIL had accounts we didn't know about and a small balance owing on a credit card. I hope other banks are as helpful.
For those of you who have been through this:
-Did you hire a CPA or estate attorney? I'm thinking we might need a CPA to file the estate's closing tax return.
-Or did you do it all yourself?
What about the insurance companies? I've heard they will refuse to pay until you threaten them with legal action. True?
I have never heard of an Insurance Company that will refuse to pay on a Life Insurance policy unless threatened with legal action. However, there was a recent 60 Minutes episode that highlighted at least one Insurance Company that will not pay unless a claim is filed, even though there is a national database to which all insurance companies have access which lists all recently deceased. This database should make filing a claim a redundant act but apparently that is not the case.
Who did your MIL's annual income tax filings? These should reflect all savings and investment accounts. Her checking account records will help reveal insurance companies too, but will not identify any single premium policies she may have purchased.
My FIL died last year; my DH is successor trustee. My FIL had dementia towards end; we found and moved any assets we knew of into trust. This was vital...financial stuff that isn't in trust, may have to go thru probate.
We found most assets via my FIL's tax returns, however, there were some that were complete surprises....small bank accounts and with interest so low, they weren't sending 1099's hence not on tax forms. My FIL was doing snail mail (not paperless) and we found them that way...we started getting his mail when he went to nursing home 4 months prior to his death.
Two stocks (one from long ago Apple Inc. employment) that never got moved to trust (by time we found out about them, his Dad was too far into dementia and too physically weak to do a transfer to trust). These had to go through Probate.
We suspected he had VA life insurance (he only served a few years in WW2), so we called VA and they confirmed quickly and paid quickly. PS: No Probate or Trust issues with life insurance...as long as there's a named beneficiary.
Also, many in his generation (he was 91 when he died), had MetLife life insurance policies that were converted to stock when the company de-mutualized (this happened to my 92 y/o mother, too). So, they are not life insurance, they're stock and we had to report to Probate (stock not insurance).
After we filed initial Probate (in Virginia) we were contacted by Prudential...they (and all insurance companies) checked the SS death list and found my FIL. Funny: it was a baby's death policy taken out by my FIL's parents in 1924 (six months after he was born)....my FIL probably didn't even know about it...it was fully paid up (a $500 value) but with interest was worth over 10K. We had to amend Probate for that because there was no named living beneficiary. BTW, Probate is a PITA, expensive, as out-of-state successor trustee, husband had to obtain bond, etc.
The items that were in the trust were easier to handle; worked with Merrill Lynch on his stock portfolio and IRAs and a private annuity. Also worked with Eaton Vance for another fund. The house was in trust and it sold quickly.
The Apple stock was a nightmare to resolve (never moved to trust, and was still titled in his name and his wife's name (she had died in early 2000s). Apple's stock transfer agent, Computershare, were hard to deal with. Had to transfer from joint account (prove MIL's death) to FIL only. Then transfer to estate (not directly to trust), then to trust. All of it went through Probate (costly).
But we resolved it all ourselves. You don't need an atty. But if estate is substantial, you should talk to CPA/tax preparer.
My FILs estate was 1+ million; my husband resolved it and disbursed 95% of it within 6 months, has kept some funds on hand in case there are any final hiccups with final IRS returns for his Dad's final returns and the final return of the trust. Awaiting 'ok' from final Probate filing (they run 3-6 months behind). Once we get all clear, he will disburse final funds to his siblings.
One surprise: we put an obit in newspaper (not cheap). The insurance companies (he had 4 or 5 policies, including VA) asked about obit (name of paper, date of obit)...they used the obit to fast-track the insurance check.
It was a bit of a hassle, but we learned a LOT about how to do our own estate(s)! Good luck.
Last edited by dothetwist; 10-25-2016 at 06:31 AM..
When each of my parents died, they had records of any insurance policies. I simply called them. They had record of the policies, even very old ones, and each gave me an email address as a contact and I sent copies of the respective death certificates. That's it. Any hassles with an insurer should be reported the insurances commissioner in your state.
I did all of the final income tax return prep. That was not difficult. Since the assets of the estate were less than taxable level, no estate tax return was required, and the estate earned no income, so no estate income tax return was required.
Get multiple certified copies of the death certificate. Many companies will require an original for their records before they will payout or transfer assets. We got 8 for my FIL and ended up needing one more to transfer his beneficiary IRAs to a new broker.
Get multiple certified copies of the death certificate. Many companies will require an original for their records before they will payout or transfer assets. We got 8 for my FIL and ended up needing one more to transfer his beneficiary IRAs to a new broker.
I did the same. Every time I took a death certificate to the bank or wherever, they took it, made a copy, and handed it back. I still have all but one of the certified copies. Every place is different. My BIL needed certified copies for everything and it was only 1 county over.
I did the same. Every time I took a death certificate to the bank or wherever, they took it, made a copy, and handed it back. I still have all but one of the certified copies. Every place is different. My BIL needed certified copies for everything and it was only 1 county over.
We also bought extras and found that most accepted copies. Where we did run into issues was having to get copies of my MIL's death certificate; she pre-deceased my FIL by 10 years, but we couldn't find any of hers. His dementia hit around the same time as her death (perhaps got worse because of her death???), and he did not change many accounts from their joint names when she died, so we had to go thru that extra step when he died. Also, when she died, he did go to his lawyer and had the Trust redrawn, however, he NEVER put anything in it! We found this out when we were visiting him (at the time we lived overseas); we did what we could to get assets we knew about into his trust, but his memory was shot so it was hit and miss.
I am doing my mom's estate now. All the life insurance paid out without any problems. One even contacted me before I contacted them as they knew from a database that she had passed.
All but one bank transferred the accounts to the beneficiary without problem.
One was wicked as my dad who had already passed years ago and was still on the account and the lady decided he was still alive as she could not find his name on a list. So I had to get a certified copy of his death certificate and then she wanted a notarized statement from me that it was an original certified copy. Just plain hoops to jump through as he died in the same county and state as the bank account....Los Angeles, CA.
Then they had to wait a month to 'pull' the hard copy records from years back to see if the beneficiary he had identified was the same as who my mom had put on the account--yep it was. Again just a hoop to go through as it was a joint account with my parents so when he died it already transferred to my mom. Did not matter who he said was the beneficiary as it was a joint account in CA.
THEN they wanted to wait 2 months in case a credit card charge came in, even though the associated credit card was already closed 2 months BEFORE they got to this step and that was paid in full before it was closed. BUT that is a know wicked bad bank that will not be identified on this forum, but everyone already knows its the most wicked bank in America
SS and the pensions were paid for an extra month and a few months after her death I finally got the paperwork for the folks to refund the overpayments.
I plan on using the same tax lady mom used for her next round of returns.
THEN they wanted to wait 2 months in case a credit card charge came in, even though the associated credit card was already closed 2 months BEFORE they got to this step and that was paid in full before it was closed. BUT that is a know wicked bad bank that will not be identified on this forum, but everyone already knows its the most wicked bank in America
Apparently my MIL was not a fan of that particularly wicked bank as it is not in her "portfolio" of bank accounts. Thank heavens as she would probably have possessed accounts even she didn't know about.
When each of my parents died, they had records of any insurance policies. I simply called them. They had record of the policies, even very old ones, and each gave me an email address as a contact and I sent copies of the respective death certificates. That's it. Any hassles with an insurer should be reported the insurances commissioner in your state.
I did all of the final income tax return prep. That was not difficult. Since the assets of the estate were less than taxable level, no estate tax return was required, and the estate earned no income, so no estate income tax return was required.
I'm glad it went smoothly for you.
The only income I can think the estate might earn would be interest -- does that count?
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