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Old 11-04-2016, 04:21 PM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,851,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Every state I know of has reined the worst that pension abuse in for their younger employees. In the Northeast, the 2% per year vesting is being replaced by defined contribution schemes or a blend of the two. The pension spiking nonsense that lets cops with $90K base pay collect $150K pensions by cashing in accrued sick & vacation time and logging "guarding the hole" overtime have mostly gone away.

With the older workers, particularly the union ones, the states are stuck with the contracts they've signed. That deal doesn't exist for the younger workers.
People often fail to acknowledge or consider that pension reform has already occured and new workers are oftennot getting anywhere near the benefits many of us already in retirement are getting. However leaving it out helps their posting.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:44 PM
 
Location: R.I.
970 posts, read 603,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
I had a dream some years ago. I was very old. I looked around me and I was in something that reminded me of a military base. All around me were other old people. There were rows after rows of barracks. A bit later in the dream we were being ushered into a massive pool. Not to swim. To be bathed.
You are describing exactly the place of my first job following graduating from nursing school in 1978. This was a state run Veterans nursing home that had a section in it called "The Dorms". This area was set up identical to a military barracks and even had a dorm sergeant and his main responsibility was making sure the residents bathed an a regular basis. When sarge was not doing his job you knew it immediately!!! The men that lived in the dorms were pretty much self care and needed only help with their medications and were free to come an go as they pleased as long as they came back before 11:00 pm curfew. If the men were late or did not return to the facility after a night out they were marked AWOL, and their punishment was their clothes were taken away for 24 hours and they had to wear PJs. This punished was established by the commandant which was his title of the person who ran the facility, and his reason for PJ punishment was the men who broke the curfew rules would not leave the facility in PJs so basically they were grounded like a teenager would be. Wrong!! Many a night I would receive calls from the local bar owners requesting I send someone to pick up so and so because he was there in his PJs

Back then I wore a white uniform dress and cap and often with a black cardigan sweater draped over my shoulders. The mostly male orderlies which is what CNAs were called back then wore state issued white pants with shirts with the off set buttons. I will never forget the night I was passing meds in the TV room, some of the residents were playing cards at a table, a couple were arguing with each other, a few talking to themselves as most of my patients had psychiatric issues, and all were chain smoking. I happened to glance up from my med cart at the TV because it was blasting loud and what was playing was the movie One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest which was an experience like something out of a Twilight Zone episode. One of my more coherent patients then said to me "Hey Nurse T you look just like that nurse in the movie except you are nice." I can assure you he did not feel the same way later that night when I had to put a catheter in him because he could not void.

After I left that job my next job was at St. Elsewhere.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:49 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,190,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
If you have "multiple millions" self-insuring this risk is not a ridiculous decision. People with Alzheimer's don't live forever. 10 years at $5000 a month is $600,000.
It's a married couple.

Did you really put any thought into that answer?

You seriously zero'd in on just Memory Care. What about Assisted and Skilled. My client had a stroke 15 years ago and still going strong but needs assistance in activities of daily living. I know about 10 people like that.

You think it's going to remain 5K for 10 years?

And that's an AVERAGE. My clients are paying 6K in FL, not including extra for private care they chose to augment the facility. Which runs about 12K per month additional.

And I never said self insuring is ridiculous. But now that you mention it, yeah, it is.
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:02 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,537 posts, read 39,914,033 times
Reputation: 23643
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
People often fail to acknowledge or consider that pension reform has already occured and new workers are oftennot getting anywhere near the benefits many of us already in retirement are getting. However leaving it out helps their posting.
I would just 'guess' that most readers / posters in C-D retirement today, ARE interested / conversing regarding their current retirement pensions / finances, not the 'potential' pensions of their grandkids.

Different world, definitely different career / savings / retirement plans needed for our grandkids. But there are PLENTY of great options for them, and WE can even HELP offer guidance and experience, apart from 'boomer remorse'!

Definitely DO NOT follow what worked for US

I will have to say... I had never expected to meet so many 20 and 30 somethings with MILLIONS $$ net assets. Most don't even consider BUYING a home! ('Conventional wisdom' has now aged, as it should...)

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 11-04-2016 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,843,254 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Both salaries and retirement incomes depend on where you are. Your 69k is great in many areas, good in others, but would be difficult to live on here. In our city the median household income is $142,000, in Seattle it's $80k now. I cannot afford to stay here after retirement because of the high property tax, but with both pensions and SS we will be at about $5,500/month, and have enough equity to pay cash for a home in a less expensive area.
Yes first let's say this outright. There are more GS 9 jobs than there are at your level of 140k per years. A GS 9 in Seattle is going to get paid the same as I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert20170 View Post
My federal government pension will be around $40k per year along with another $22k per year for social security supplement at age 60 until I quality at age 62. A $22k federal pension would be someone that retired with a high three of around $74,000 a year and retired after 30 years of service under the new retirement system. They would also qualify for social security. Someone making $74k per year under the old retirement system would have a pension of closer to $44k but may not qualify for social security. That could be close to average, but I make much more than that in my federal position and will continue to gain salary over the next 7 years as I approach retirement.



Mine will be a federal government pension. It sucks that people are going through what you are.
agreed but as I said that is not the normal amount a federal worker makes. My boss didn't make that. His boss didn't make that. The adjutant general got that kind of pay not the rank and file.

[mod cut]

Last edited by volosong; 11-05-2016 at 10:57 AM.. Reason: orphaned, referenced post edited
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:29 PM
 
25,972 posts, read 32,970,649 times
Reputation: 32158
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
That's a little like having one foot in a bucket of ice water and the other in a bucket of scalding hot water - but "on average", the temperature is just fine.

Take defined benefit pension plans common among public sector employees. That public sector employee might retire with a meager $25K of savings, but the value of his defined benefit pension plan - if translated into a bank account -- would be multiple millions of $$$. That multiple $Millions is not counted among his "savings" for reporting purposes.
I don't know what kind of public sector employee you are talking about, but I think your numbers are off.

Map: The "Average" Pension of Retired State and Local Government Workers, By State | TeacherPensions.org


I know many many people that have retired from a lifelong public sector career, and NONE of them qualify as millionaires.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:31 PM
 
25,972 posts, read 32,970,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Most public sector employees have very generous defined benefit pensions.
I guess that depends on what you consider to be "generous".
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:58 PM
 
25,972 posts, read 32,970,649 times
Reputation: 32158
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
You would do well to take your own advice.


Shall I go on???
You pulled the top few pages from 1215 pages. That is HARDLY a true representation of the pensions for Nevada state employees.

You only have to go down a couple hundred pages, and the numbers are like this:

Name Job Title/Employer/Pension Pension Disability Years of
Service Year of
Retirement Total amount
Myrna Wilson Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,731.56 $0.00 30.00 2004 $59,731.56
Steven J. Hill Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,731.56 $0.00 31.45 2014 $59,731.56
James J Burritt Employer: Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Dept.
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $0.00 $59,730.24 20.99 2016 $59,730.24
Penelope Eggen Employer: Washoe County School District - Teaching Staff
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,728.08 $0.00 30.03 2003 $59,728.08
Julia A Williams Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,722.20 $0.00 37.26 2015 $59,722.20
Kerry Wilson Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,721.36 $0.00 30.00 2008 $59,721.36
Not Provided Employer: Elko County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,719.92 $0.00 30.57 2014 $59,719.92
Dennis Mewshaw Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,718.96 $0.00 20.09 2010 $59,718.96
David Slade Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $0.00 $59,718.60 28.01 1999 $59,718.60
Gina L. Chandler Employer: Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Dept.
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $0.00 $59,717.28 20.19 2013 $59,717.28
Nancy Aitken Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,713.68 $0.00 0.00 1999 $59,713.68
Kevin Leany Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,713.32 $0.00 32.18 2010 $59,713.32
William Black Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,711.52 $0.00 26.87 2008 $59,711.52
Paul Woicicki Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,710.32 $0.00 30.00 2003 $59,710.32
Lu Jean Whitmore Employer: Douglas County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,708.28 $0.00 30.09 2005 $59,708.28
Kathleen Yori Employer: Washoe County School District - Teaching Staff
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,708.28 $0.00 31.00 2008 $59,708.28
Morley Shelton Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,705.76 $0.00 30.73 2002 $59,705.76
Cynthia Willis Employer: Washoe County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,702.28 $0.00 30.11 2010 $59,702.28
Jorene Easter Employer: Mineral County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,695.32 $0.00 30.00 1993 $59,695.32
Pamela Carlson Employer: Washoe County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,694.72 $0.00 29.57 2009 $59,694.72
Gregory Shoemaker Employer: City of Las Vegas
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,692.32 $0.00 23.52 2010 $59,692.32
Robert Simon Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,690.52 $0.00 25.04 2002 $59,690.52
Kevin Widdison Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,690.16 $0.00 31.49 2008 $59,690.16
Valerie Waroway Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,685.36 $0.00 30.46 2006 $59,685.36
Linda Henry Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,681.04 $0.00 30.29 2001 $59,681.04
Ollie Powe Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,679.72 $0.00 25.85 2007 $59,679.72
Steven W. White Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,679.36 $0.00 23.42 2014 $59,679.36
Dorothy Miller Employer: University of Nevada, Reno
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,678.04 $0.00 26.42 2012 $59,678.04
John Cahill Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,677.44 $0.00 35.70 2008 $59,677.44
Not Provided Employer: City of Sparks
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,668.44 $0.00 27.13 2014 $59,668.44
Patricia Rugiero Employer: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,666.40 $0.00 25.02 2007 $59,666.40
Not Provided Employer: University of Nevada, Reno
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,663.04 $0.00 28.90 2014 $59,663.04
Jody St Hilaire Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,662.56 $0.00 30.01 2007 $59,662.56
Brian Morgan Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,661.72 $0.00 33.02 2008 $59,661.72
Robert Miner Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,661.60 $0.00 30.00 1992 $59,661.60
Joseph Lavietes Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,661.60 $0.00 30.09 2007 $59,661.60
Erlinda Clary Employer: Dept. of Personnel
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,661.36 $0.00 25.07 2012 $59,661.36
Not Provided Employer: Airport Authority of Washoe County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,658.36 $0.00 35.12 2015 $59,658.36
Marcia Wisusik Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,658.12 $0.00 30.00 2001 $59,658.12
Not Provided Employer: City of Las Vegas
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,656.56 $0.00 30.03 2014 $59,656.56
Not Provided Employer: City of Sparks
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,656.44 $0.00 26.68 2015 $59,656.44
James Pattani Employer: Dept. of Transportation (Merged with State on 7/1/2008
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,656.32 $0.00 34.96 1990 $59,656.32
Not Provided Employer: Washoe County School District - Teaching Staff
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,652.72 $0.00 29.61 2014 $59,652.72
Sandra Shields Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,645.40 $0.00 26.20 2007 $59,645.40
Floyd Whiting Employer: Washoe County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,645.28 $0.00 25.58 2005 $59,645.28
James Toone Employer: City of Reno
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,642.52 $0.00 30.04 1999 $59,642.52
William Stojack Employer: Clark County
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,642.28 $0.00 22.96 1997 $59,642.28
Marcia Taylor Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,638.08 $0.00 30.01 2004 $59,638.08
Russell Childers Employer: Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Dept.
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,628.60 $0.00 25.09 1993 $59,628.60
Tammy L Wilder Employer: Clark County School District
Pension: NVPERS, 2015 $59,628.36 $0.00 30.01 2015 $59,628.36


That said, Nevada has high pension payouts. But there is a good reason for that. Maybe if you do some research you'll understand.

************************************************** ***********************************

Unlike some other public employers, the state requires its employees to pay half of the calculated cost of their retirement.

According to PERS, the average state employee in Nevada retired at age 64 and earned a monthly benefit of $2,603 in 2012. Since the AARP reports that, nationally, the average retiree’s monthly income was $2,645 in 2012, it is hard to argue this is excessive.

In the private sector, the average employee contributes 8.2 percent of income to a retirement plan while the average employer contributes approximately 8.9 percent if we include Social Security.

State employees currently pay 13.25 percent of their income into retirement, which the state matches instead of participating in Social Security (which would require a match of 6.2 percent). The governor proposes to increase this contribution to 14.5 percent each, which would raise the state’s cost by a little under $10 million, or less than 1.2 percent of his proposed $7.3 billion budget.


************************************************** ****************


Retired police officers and firefighters from Nevada in 2007 received an average of $3,549 a month from PERS, or 60 percent more than the average $2,216 received by other government employees.

The higher pension is solely a reflection of the higher total compensation paid police and firefighters, said Dana Bilyeu, executive officer for Nevada PERS.

The average monthly pension for police and firefighters climbed 59 percent from 1998 to 2007, and the average pension for other government workers grew 51 percent in that time, according to PERS.
************************************************** ****************************


Nevada pensioners are some of the highest in the nation. But so are their contributions. That said, get ready for pension reform. It's coming soon.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:09 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,417,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
If you have "multiple millions" self-insuring this risk is not a ridiculous decision. People with Alzheimer's don't live forever. 10 years at $5000 a month is $600,000.
That's the low end of today's dollars. How will your pension & SS pay $20,000 a month 20 years from now?
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,429 posts, read 10,481,794 times
Reputation: 33461
You don't need as much as you think you need.
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