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Old 11-11-2016, 01:12 PM
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,428,989 times
Reputation: 15678


Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I think the person said they never MADE enough to be able to save. In other words, they did not have high enough paying jobs. Nothing to do with "chose." and, just in case... they did not CHOSE to have low paying jobs either. For example, I know someone who, because of a birth defect, will never be able to work at a high paying job. He did not CHOOSE to have a birth defect. Did not CHOOSE to only be able to work at a low paying job. He works long hours but makes very little. It's the best he can mange to do. He's not happy about it and it was not something he CHOSE.
I think everyone can agree that a safety net for the disabled is a reasonable thing in a civilized society. Let's not focus on that.

Life is a series of choices. At every given level of income, you have a choice: you can spend some of it, all of it, or more than all of it (that is, spend on a credit card).

Old 11-11-2016, 01:18 PM
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,428,989 times
Reputation: 15678
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
The Democrats were the ones reducing the military's pay and benefits. They don't give a damn about our troops or their families or the seniors. They have done nothing to help either of those groups.
I think that is a bit over the top.
Old 11-11-2016, 01:21 PM
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,428,989 times
Reputation: 15678
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
...Now the 'price' of a routine uncomplicated delivery is probably three or four times the average workers monthly take home pay and in many states rent alone consumes 50% or 60% of gross salary, so how do those people come up with the money?
Currently, we finance it through insurance. Is that the best way to finance it?

When someone has an auto repair bill, how do they finance it? My guess is on a credit card. Possibly some other consumer finance vehicle.

Which way has less administrative fees?
Old 11-11-2016, 02:01 PM
Location: Former LI'er Now Rehoboth Beach, DE
7,862 posts, read 10,545,026 times
Reputation: 7934
Originally Posted by Deelighted View Post
I hope that you never land in the same boat as many retired Americans who worked hard their entire lives, then had some disaster (job loss, health issues, etc.) occur where their retirement savings disappeared. While the adage is when life hands you lemons, make lemonade - but what happens if those lemons are spoiled?

It's easy to get on your high horse when you've never experienced life changing difficulties.

I am not on a high horse, rather just pointing out that many people are under the incorrect impression that SS is actually meant to sustain you in your old age. Nothing has ever been stated that is the case. I badly for anyone who finds themselves in a tough spot for any reason, that said, too many people don't know how to budget and save for their retirement and expect to be bailed out.

Could I be wiped out? Possibly? but it won't be because we depended upon SS or because we didn't plan and save and budget so that when we retired we could actually make it on our savings and retirement plans and SS was for the extras. We don't go out to dinner every night or even every week, we have a nice life, but we were very conservative in our spending and splurged when we felt we had the room to do so.
Old 11-11-2016, 02:31 PM
Location: OH>IL>CO>CT
5,226 posts, read 8,388,588 times
Reputation: 7180
Originally Posted by reed303 View Post
If interested, the 2017 county-by-county payments are available at this CMS/Medicare webpage:


So are Part C Advantage plans a pre-cursor to Ryan's "voucher" plan ? And would we still have to pay the insurance co. an additional (currently $123/mo in my own case) for a plan with decent coverage ?
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I doubt if you would still pay medicare part B but the rates might be higher than on the lists you provided because there would be no guarantee to insurers of the number of people enrolling, and if only the elderly with health problems signed up the rates would probably skyrocket.
Currently the Part C payment rates take into account the number of enrollees, and their costs to the insurer. That's why the rates vary so much from county to county.

And of course Medicare is already "only the elderly with health problems", because the insurance co. don't want us as "regular" clients. That why Medicare was created in the first place.

And the insurance co would probably fight any "Medicare for all" plan, unless it was a giant Part C (aka voucher) plan with the govt. paying very high "premiums" for each enrollee.
Old 11-11-2016, 03:49 PM
13,872 posts, read 7,381,208 times
Reputation: 25351
Originally Posted by seeriously View Post
I'm 66 and waiting until I'm 70 to collect SS. We were out to dinner last night with friends, also 66, and both waiting until age 70 to collect. As scary as a Trump presidency is, SS will still be there. I'd worry more if I was under 55 because that's where they'll make the squeeze.
That was the common wisdom a decade ago. I was 48 and had zero confidence that Social Security would be there. At 58, it's unlikely much would change for me other than the basis for the COLA calculation and maybe having the benefit 100% taxable.

I figure they will eventually adopt the bipartisan commission recommendations. FRA slides up to age 69. Payroll taxes go up by 1%. The income cap at $118,500 (2016 dollars) gradually slides up. With full Republican control, I'm not sure I believe the income cap will be lifted but I don't see how Congress would outright slash benefits. Anybody even remotely close to retirement age would howl. The program is underfunded 30% in the long term. Somebody has to pay for it.

...or Donald Trump could just say he's going to grow the economy by 5%+ and all those added wages produce the payroll taxes to fund the program fully. Kick the problem under the carpet for the next four years.
Old 11-11-2016, 04:03 PM
2,403 posts, read 1,044,833 times
Reputation: 1175
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
The Democrats were the ones reducing the military's pay and benefits.
When did this happen?
Old 11-11-2016, 04:20 PM
13,872 posts, read 7,381,208 times
Reputation: 25351
Originally Posted by wombleywomberly View Post
When did this happen?
Never, basically. They haven't had control of either house of Congress for years so it's not like the Democrats can file bills changing those things. They have voted against bills with increased military spending that didn't have corresponding increases in Democrat-supported programs. If your only news source is Fox News, I suppose things like that can get twisted into some alternate reality.

It's kind of funny because Hillary is the neocon hawk. Trump has been all over the place on defense spending over the years. I don't think anybody can predict where he will stand over the next four years. Defense spending doesn't juice the economy the way he wants. If you want 5% growth, you need to spend the money where it will actually produce growth.
Old 11-11-2016, 04:27 PM
Location: AZ
672 posts, read 393,682 times
Reputation: 2776
If the US does not have a significant job recovery with good wages and with workers inputting money into the SS program, then you had better hope a lot of people die before SS age. At a minimum, the age for SS will have to be increased. I can also see a means test of some sort down the road. Twenty trillion dollar debt is big stuff and no program can be immune to some sort of cut or retrenchment. I hope Mr. Trump will first get us out of these ridiculous, expensive wars and pull out of many of these foreign countries we have been in for decades. Crazy. I do not think many seem to understand how fragile our nation is with its economy based on debt and credit. I do not envy anyone whose well being depends on SS but I know many that live with that scenario day to day and it is tough. The democrats and republicans have been kicking the can down the road year after year. Mr. Trump can push for reforms but it has to be the congress manning up to reform the system to make it viable out into the future. I won't be holding my breath.
Old 11-11-2016, 04:39 PM
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,125 posts, read 2,994,022 times
Reputation: 13762
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
How can one possibly forecast across the board cuts at this point in time? It takes two - congress and the prez.

Pay more attention to Paul Ryan's plans. That's where the damage will come from. Yes, SS is vulnerable, but how? We can't say yet.
Donald the Deplorable is the ultimate snake-oil salesman. But is he foolish enough to reduce Social Security, the third-rail of politics, for current and soon-to-be recipients? In his opening campaign statement, he swore that no current benefits in SS, SSI, Medicare and Medicaid would be reduced. At the Republican Convention this year, their platform included the same promise.

So what could change about that? Have Trump and the Republicans ever been known to lie or mislead about anything?

I agree that Ryan is the more dangerous and scheming weasel of the two. Why didn't he want to be the nominee of the party? He could have had it easily. It's because he knows he will have more power and destructive ability in his current position. And he can maintain a lower profile while he does it and escape the flak that would be launched at a president.
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