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Old 11-14-2016, 09:46 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,867,277 times
Reputation: 11705

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's good, you were very smart and obviously capable of getting a job that would allow you to save enough to have financial security in your retirement...but guess what, there are lots of decent people in this nation who get up every morning just like you do, they get dressed and they go to work very single day, but they clean toilets, operate cash registers or cook hamburgers. They struggle to sustain themselves and their families but are usually broke before payday. So instead of sharing your success story, why don't you tell us what should happen to those less fortunate than you?
The typical American couple has only $5,000 saved for retirement - MarketWatch
This is said with all respect and personal concern for others but the truthful answer many would say is the poor house and death at a younger age. It is already happening on the streets of America and will probably increase and spread.

 
Old 11-14-2016, 09:48 AM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,347,648 times
Reputation: 8162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Trump says he'll keep the first two. A person should be able to scrounge up a job with medical insurance by age 26, unless they are in some sort of academic program that takes a long time to complete, like medical or law school. I agree with keeping the preexisting condition portion as it is.

I don't consider a business with fifty employees a small business. With the economy improving, not offering health insurance is going to make it difficult to attract and retain workers.

Like I said, the ACA has brought benefits, but has also created additional costs and overhead, along with keeping in place a largely private system. If anything, we are getting fewer competitors in the market, not more, and increased monopolization of health services. It's introduced many new inefficiencies into a system that wasn't great to begin with.

I've always said the ACA might eventually morph into a single-payer monopoly just because of the pressures it puts on insurance companies AND employers. It could still happen, because Trump's sweeping promise to kick 22 million people off their health coverage without having anything in place to supplant the ACA is a teeny bit impractical. To say the least.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 09:49 AM
 
2,403 posts, read 1,046,148 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
OK well first off, how do you think Hillary would have handled it?
Irrelevant. She lost. Get over it.

The issue is the future.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27667
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
This is said with all respect and personal concern for others but the truthful answer many would say is the poor house and death at a younger age. It is already happening on the streets of America and will probably increase and spread.
Honestly, it has always been that way.

I don't know if I said this in this thread or another, but there is a general trend on the retirement board to view 60s/70s as healthy years. In general, the people on this board are more affluent than average, so they can afford quality health care into their older years. They're going to be more informed about proper nutrition and diet than most folks. Because they're healthier, they're likely to be more active and exercise, which further increases good health. They're more likely to live in areas where people place greater emphasis on health, so there is pressure to "keep up with the Joneses" in that respect.

That's not the case in a lot of places. Where I'm from, many people in their 60s are starting to notably decline. Many people don't live until 70, and if they do, they're certainly not living well. Life expectancy in many counties in this area is a bit below 70. Many folks in those areas don't have high quality health insurance, but even if they did, there aren't many medical providers. What care is available is generally of a lower quality than what most people on this board expect. Not only do these people not have as good of an understanding about health and nutrition - even if they did, many grocery stores in this area do not carry much in the way of fresh vegetables and healthy foods like the ones I frequented in Indiana. Many small towns don't even have much in the way of walking trails or gyms, so there aren't even good places to exercise, especially in cold weather.

You could give these people free, unlimited medical visits and the life expectancy is not going to change that much if you don't also change some of the other variables.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,066 posts, read 13,591,379 times
Reputation: 22129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Honestly, it has always been that way.

I don't know if I said this in this thread or another, but there is a general trend on the retirement board to view 60s/70s as healthy years. In general, the people on this board are more affluent than average, so they can afford quality health care into their older years. They're going to be more informed about proper nutrition and diet than most folks. Because they're healthier, they're likely to be more active and exercise, which further increases good health. They're more likely to live in areas where people place greater emphasis on health, so there is pressure to "keep up with the Joneses" in that respect.

That's not the case in a lot of places. Where I'm from, many people in their 60s are starting to notably decline. Many people don't live until 70, and if they do, they're certainly not living well. Life expectancy in many counties in this area is a bit below 70. Many folks in those areas don't have high quality health insurance, but even if they did, there aren't many medical providers. What care is available is generally of a lower quality than what most people on this board expect. Not only do these people not have as good of an understanding about health and nutrition - even if they did, many grocery stores in this area do not carry much in the way of fresh vegetables and healthy foods like the ones I frequented in Indiana. Many small towns don't even have much in the way of walking trails or gyms, so there aren't even good places to exercise, especially in cold weather.

You could give these people free, unlimited medical visits and the life expectancy is not going to change that much if you don't also change some of the other variables.
Then what is your solution?
 
Old 11-14-2016, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27667
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Then what is your solution?
To be frank, I'm not sure there is one. If there is, it's multifaceted and way beyond the scope of this thread.

At it relates to seniors, I think part of the focus on especially the rural poor boils down to educating younger family members who are often involved with the senior relative about best practices.

My grandfather is scared of dentists. He is 81 and hasn't seen a dentist in many years. He rarely goes to the doctor either and is in need of dental work. They are on Medicare (no idea about his dental coverage) - he not only needs education about how dentists are not harmful, the services they provide, and how what they do can benefit him. He needs some sort of soothing that the experience won't be traumatic. Dental coverage is not going to do him much good if he simply won't go.

Social services in this area are weak due to low population density and low government budgets, but social services are in great need. The affluent suburban community I lived in Indiana could afford more in the way of social services, but amusingly enough I doubt they need them as much as we do here in poor Appalachia.

In general, people need to be educated about positive choices and lifestyle changes.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,617 posts, read 1,629,175 times
Reputation: 6138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Actually, it was HILLARY who, years ago, said that everyone would have to "feel the pain" of cuts.

Trump said that he "sees no need" to make changes to SS or Medicare, and he stuck with that when pressed. Also, give me a break because the two Republican nominees before Trump said that NO changes would affect those already receiving, or close to receiving, benefits. And the voters rejected that.
I agree. SS has had a known deficit problem for my entire lifetime. Trump isn't going to change this because he doesn't need to deal with it. Trump plays for Trump. Ex-Presidents are entitled to receive insider information before it hits the public for the remainder of their lives. That's the reward. Information. All of the rest of this is a bunch of semantics to do what Trump does. He wins. He sees 15 Republicans fighting for the compassionate conservative vote, and he goes low to get the nomination. Clinton is uniquely hated in the base, and he goes with it to rally the base to victory. As soon as he's elected, he starts sounding more intelligent and conciliatory. Why? He's got his win and doesn't need the low road anymore. Now he just needs to survive 4 more years without massive embarrassment, and the easiest way to do that is to not do much. He's going to let K Street and Party pick the ideas, and he's going to hide it all while being noisy about trying to find cheaters. A little bit of fear, a little bit of show, and like a magician the tricks won't even be seen until it's time to reveal them.

If anything, a Trump win is likely to increase SS payouts for current retirees because he's going to try and get inflation back. He's a real estate developer that just got a trillion dollar pocketbook for building infrastructure. He's going to make so many friends it's going to be HUUUGE.

SS long term? It's been running in deficit for decades and nobody's effectively cared. It needs restraint and cuts and those are loser topics. My SS statement says that when I'm eligible, at age 69.5, I should expect no more than 76% of what's listed. The reality is most of my GenX colleagues expect 0 or a pittance. The retirement calculators all run with an "assume no SS" scenario. Like trade surpluses, diploma level jobs with pensions, 1 income families, paying for State U with a summer job and the quaint but affordable starter home...the older generation will take this with them as well.

So relax and enjoy it. Trump won't touch your SS. He'll let you devour ours, and if he doesn't, someone else will.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,617 posts, read 1,629,175 times
Reputation: 6138
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's good, you were very smart and obviously capable of getting a job that would allow you to save enough to have financial security in your retirement...but guess what, there are lots of decent people in this nation who get up every morning just like you do, they get dressed and they go to work very single day, but they clean toilets, operate cash registers or cook hamburgers. They struggle to sustain themselves and their families but are usually broke before payday. So instead of sharing your success story, why don't you tell us what should happen to those less fortunate than you?
The typical American couple has only $5,000 saved for retirement - MarketWatch
They should read Sinclair's "The Jungle" and understand that was America just 100 years ago. They should start making the changes they can today. Can't find a job? Find a working couple you can help care for the children. Find family you can help and move in with them. Each generation having its own living space is a luxury we've forgotten even was one.

Most of all, don't expect to quit cleaning toilets, operating cash registers or cooking hamburgers. People used to work until they died. Social Security was setup originally for the very old.

There's no more help coming. The help your getting now will likely go down long term. However, with the breakdown and gradual elimination of permanent jobs, there are more opportunities for contracting then ever before. Some places will hire cash jobs.

I don't mean to be amazingly hurtful, but that's the reality. If you didn't save any money, you are going to have to find some use for yourself. Trump and Clinton both could have retired. And I very much understand health declines, but you're going to have to find something you can do or look for someone to surrender some independence too. I know one man who had a military pension but was dying who married a nursing assistant that was younger. It was not romantic. It was her getting his pension continuation and cheap rent for her kids and he getting someone to care for him in his final years.

The options are not pretty. The more you do now independently, the better your options will be. That's the truth. If it upsets you, don't waste time blasting me back. Go walk to the nearby places and see if there's someplace where you can work. Pick up the phone and just say hi to family members you haven't talked to in awhile. We all got lied to and will continue to get lied to. If illegals are returning to home countries, there's a chance some of those jobs may open up for the elderly.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 02:16 PM
 
2,403 posts, read 1,046,148 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
They should read Sinclair's "The Jungle" and understand that was America just 100 years ago. They should start making the changes they can today. Can't find a job? Find a working couple you can help care for the children. Find family you can help and move in with them. Each generation having its own living space is a luxury we've forgotten even was one.

Most of all, don't expect to quit cleaning toilets, operating cash registers or cooking hamburgers. People used to work until they died. Social Security was setup originally for the very old.

There's no more help coming. The help your getting now will likely go down long term. However, with the breakdown and gradual elimination of permanent jobs, there are more opportunities for contracting then ever before. Some places will hire cash jobs.

I don't mean to be amazingly hurtful, but that's the reality. If you didn't save any money, you are going to have to find some use for yourself. Trump and Clinton both could have retired. And I very much understand health declines, but you're going to have to find something you can do or look for someone to surrender some independence too. I know one man who had a military pension but was dying who married a nursing assistant that was younger. It was not romantic. It was her getting his pension continuation and cheap rent for her kids and he getting someone to care for him in his final years.

The options are not pretty. The more you do now independently, the better your options will be. That's the truth. If it upsets you, don't waste time blasting me back. Go walk to the nearby places and see if there's someplace where you can work. Pick up the phone and just say hi to family members you haven't talked to in awhile. We all got lied to and will continue to get lied to. If illegals are returning to home countries, there's a chance some of those jobs may open up for the elderly.
Very balanced and thoughtful. However, do you think the elderly will be able to perform the kind of work that illegals tend to do - and that's if enough of them leave, voluntarily or otherwise ?

Also, ageism is already an issue in hiring. I don't expect a great deal of support for labor discrimination cases from a Trump administration.

Thanks!
 
Old 11-14-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: VT; previously MD & NJ
2,202 posts, read 1,346,551 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
They should read Sinclair's "The Jungle" and understand that was America just 100 years ago. They should start making the changes they can today. Can't find a job? Find a working couple you can help care for the children. Find family you can help and move in with them. Each generation having its own living space is a luxury we've forgotten even was one.
What you say is so true (this post and the one above).

I picked up on your point about "each generation having its own living space is a luxury" because that is just one example of how much we as a society have become so very spoiled. Along the same vein, siblings used to share bedrooms. When did they start needing their own rooms? Family has learned to live apart from an early age and so thinks that is normal. Well it's not normal for family to live apart, and it is very expensive besides.

As our world continues to change, I think we will see more of the habits and economies of the Great Depression generation come back. Most of us will learn to live with less because it will be necessary.
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