U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-15-2016, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,278 posts, read 12,520,484 times
Reputation: 19441

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverBird View Post
Anyone who relies in large part on Social Security and Medicare should be worried. Note these were not topics in the debates.
Medicare is toast. Ryan will have clear sailing pushing it to a voucher system. That gives insurance companies a piece of the action, and they are drooling. The bottom line is, if you don't have medicare you aren't getting it, ever.

 
Old 11-15-2016, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,278 posts, read 12,520,484 times
Reputation: 19441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbria View Post
I would say we have a major problem with the tax code - a code that was developed by others like Trump. Why hasn't this been addressed & changed a long time ago?
It was, during the Reagan administration. Almost all the deductions and tax breaks were cancelled, and everybody but the wheeler dealers got a big cut in the percentage of taxes they paid. I remember my federal income tax dropped by about 20%. Tax rates went down, and collections increased in one swell foop. Tax returns were one page. Then Congress got to work adding back the breaks for their buddies, until we have the impenetrable swamp we deal with today. It only took 30 years or so.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,278 posts, read 12,520,484 times
Reputation: 19441
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
I guess that makes me feel better, but I'm not really sure. Sounds like we should all feel better that we were lied to, simply so he could get elected. So, if Trump was elected on a bunch of false promises that are OK because that is the price one pays to get in office, what exactly is he going to do as President? Does anybody really know?
The president doesn't do that much. Now that congress has a clear avenue to pass all their whacko social engineering, we can expect the right wing bomb throwers in the House to do everything they can to wreck America. They were elected on a promise to destroy the government, and that is exactly what they plan to do. Trump will be fat, dumb and happy being a figurehead, until he figures out that he is being taken for a ride. At that point, cooperation between congress and the presidency will break down, and we will be back to blessed gridlock.

The democrats will make big gains in the midterm elections, and the feds will go back to wrecking small stuff instead of trashing the whole country.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 05:50 AM
 
451 posts, read 178,715 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
You have no idea of the amount of money that the working and middle-middle class earn, if you think most people have $100/month for 45 years to "invest." Many have no expendable income, many others have little.

Social Security was started because there was a need. The MAJORITY of seniors were living in abject poverty. It turned out to be one of the most successful programs in the country, and worked to resolve the problem that existed. Only about 20% of seniors now live in poverty.

In this country we have people at all income levels. It is a fact of life that of a population, there will necessarily be those at the bottom income level, and someone will be at the top. They will not all be at the top. The universe doesn't work that way.

All people, even you, make the wrong choices sometimes. Lucky you that your choices didn't determine that you would not have much income the rest of your life. Others were not so lucky. Also, we don't all get the same start in life. Born with bad parents, in a bad part of town, or without much of an IQ, or with some disability...many are destined to be low wage earners. And that's okay. As long as they work to support themselves and are productive members of our society.

All workers are due respect. We need cashiers, janitors, maids, clerks, and others in the working class. We certainly need them more than we need another stockbroker. The working and middle classes work hard for a living, but many will be poor in their senior years. Even the middle class, who have all the bills to go along with supporting a family in these days when things are so expensive, struggle to save. There is no longer the hope of paying for college educations for kids AND saving enough for retirement. That American Dream is gone.

Also... people don't know how to invest. It's too easy to invest in the wrong thing, or to have your investment eaten away by institution fees. The privatization scheme for Social Security is a giveaway to the financial institutions - the big donors of politicians.

Seniors in poverty is the concern of all of us, and most certainly of the government. It is fitting that the govt came up with a successful plan to deal with the problem. It has worked well. And now, rich, greedy people want to see seniors in poverty again, because, after all, as you said...it's their problem, not yours.

Social Security should remain as it is. The govt puts the money in a pool, invests it, and doesn't get stuck with the enormous fees that the 401ks are. Social Security benefits from the scale of economy. If you do "A," then you get "B." It works because if you die, then your benefits end, but stay in the pool. That way, if you live longer than expected, your benefits don't end, because of the pool.

Social Security without a pool is not "social" or "secure." If you want, and since you have money, you can invest $100/month for 45 years, in addition to your small SS tax you pay, and you will live in style in your senior years. Most others in America are not that lucky.

You need to throw off your attitude and go work in the real world for a year, then come back and give your opinion of what it's like to work as a waiter for a living as an adult (not temporarily as a college kid), or as a janitor. Better yet, start over...be born in a state and city far from financial institutions and artistic people. Your world consists of cows and tractors. You are taught to earn an honest living. There's no talk of college. People there don't go to college. There's no talk of working as a broker or professor. That's not in your world. You are expected to work at the local factory or whatever. There's no $100 to invest, and you wouldn't know the first thing about how to do that.

Try being a little more empathetic and opening your mind and learning about other people. They're not all like you. Everyone is different...and to be equally respected.


This is just another post to "feel sorry" about the working class." Blue collar workers have many opportunities to invest and they do not need to be experts. Contribute to your 401k plan at work. Open and contribute to a ROTH IRA. Don't know or understand what those are? You have a computer. USE IT!!! Lord knows you use it for Facebook, and Instagram, and Snapchat!

Educate yourself. Learn. Just because you are a waiter or a janitor or a maid does not mean you cannot participate in the many programs to invest in your future. And who says you have to be a maid or a janitor or a waiter the rest of your life? Better yourself and your education. Can't do that cuz you decided to have 3 kids before the age of 21? Hmm.......whose fault is that?

Enough with the "poor me" syndrome. There is no greater country on earth where there is the opportunity to succeed than the USA. Do what you need to do to be successful and taken a little "individual responsibility."
 
Old 11-16-2016, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,614 posts, read 17,598,460 times
Reputation: 27693
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Social Security is solvent right now. A mere tinkering would resolve any problems in the near future. However, it won't go in the red at all any time soon. Within about 20 years, it will start paying out a bit more than it's receiving.

But the goal for the Republican Party is not to fix Social Security. It's to end it. They've been quite open about that. Privatizing is their way to end it. Once all or part of it is privatized, it is no longer Social Security. It will crumble on its own, once the base is demolished. There are no surprises here.

Same with Medicare.
From a purely philosophical perspective, yes, conservatism would want to end SS. Practically and electorally, absolutely not.

Practically, how are Republicans going to just yank it? The Boomers aren't even majority at FRA yet. If you just close up the shop, they deserve that money back, which means quickly printing more cash we don't have to cover the presumably one off lump sum payments to each contributor. Logistically, no, you can't just shut it down - it would take years to do an orderly phase out or shutdown, and by then, people would have voted Democrats in power, so they'd just undo whatever Republicans did. Not all Republicans would go along with it either.

It's one of those sacred cows I don't see being altered significantly anytime soon, but I may be completely wrong.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,830,480 times
Reputation: 13083
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisetheworld View Post
This is just another post to "feel sorry" about the working class." Blue collar workers have many opportunities to invest and they do not need to be experts. Contribute to your 401k plan at work. Open and contribute to a ROTH IRA. Don't know or understand what those are? You have a computer. USE IT!!! Lord knows you use it for Facebook, and Instagram, and Snapchat!

Educate yourself. Learn. Just because you are a waiter or a janitor or a maid does not mean you cannot participate in the many programs to invest in your future. And who says you have to be a maid or a janitor or a waiter the rest of your life? Better yourself and your education. Can't do that cuz you decided to have 3 kids before the age of 21? Hmm.......whose fault is that?

Enough with the "poor me" syndrome. There is no greater country on earth where there is the opportunity to succeed than the USA. Do what you need to do to be successful and taken a little "individual responsibility."
This entire post is an exercise in unreality.

How would you like it if the next time you take a cruise, there were no maids to make your bed and clean your cabin? How about if there were no waiters to serve you your food? How about if there were no window cleaners, pool maintenance people, or any people doing the low-paying jobs aboard a ship?

This post is typical of a person who broad-brushes the reasons why some people are poor or lower middle class. Three kids before 21, really???????????

Oh, and just for the record, I am not on Facebook, nor do I use Instagram or Snapchat. I am relying on my social security (in addition to a few tens of thousands in a savings account) to get by. I do not 'feel sorry' for myself; in fact I am rather proud of myself for being in the financial position I find myself in today. After a chaotic life, I own a house and a car and have no credit card debt (don't even use one). In fact, the only bills I have are the utility bills and real estate taxes.

So, breathe your rarified air, and look down your nose at others who are less fortunate if it makes you feel good. People who need to denigrate others generally are rather insecure. Good luck to you.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 06:54 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710
$100 a month saved for 45 years as a retirement fund is not a reality concept. How many in their 70's now had $100 a month to spare 50 years ago? Starting now how much will $100 a month saved for 45 years even with ROI and compounding be worth in 50 years?
 
Old 11-16-2016, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Central NY
4,680 posts, read 3,253,088 times
Reputation: 11982
There will always be people whose vision is so blocked they never see the light. Very negative, no hope.

Anyone recall who this character is??

"Henny Penny, more commonly known in the United States as Chicken Little and sometimes as Chicken Licken, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a cumulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end. Wikipedia
Originally published: 1991
Adaptations: Chicken Little (2005), Chicken Little (1943)"
 
Old 11-16-2016, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,614 posts, read 17,598,460 times
Reputation: 27693
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
You have no idea of the amount of money that the working and middle-middle class earn, if you think most people have $100/month for 45 years to "invest." Many have no expendable income, many others have little.

Social Security was started because there was a need. The MAJORITY of seniors were living in abject poverty. It turned out to be one of the most successful programs in the country, and worked to resolve the problem that existed. Only about 20% of seniors now live in poverty.

In this country we have people at all income levels. It is a fact of life that of a population, there will necessarily be those at the bottom income level, and someone will be at the top. They will not all be at the top. The universe doesn't work that way.

All people, even you, make the wrong choices sometimes. Lucky you that your choices didn't determine that you would not have much income the rest of your life. Others were not so lucky. Also, we don't all get the same start in life. Born with bad parents, in a bad part of town, or without much of an IQ, or with some disability...many are destined to be low wage earners. And that's okay. As long as they work to support themselves and are productive members of our society.

All workers are due respect. We need cashiers, janitors, maids, clerks, and others in the working class. We certainly need them more than we need another stockbroker. The working and middle classes work hard for a living, but many will be poor in their senior years. Even the middle class, who have all the bills to go along with supporting a family in these days when things are so expensive, struggle to save. There is no longer the hope of paying for college educations for kids AND saving enough for retirement. That American Dream is gone.

Also... people don't know how to invest. It's too easy to invest in the wrong thing, or to have your investment eaten away by institution fees. The privatization scheme for Social Security is a giveaway to the financial institutions - the big donors of politicians.

Seniors in poverty is the concern of all of us, and most certainly of the government. It is fitting that the govt came up with a successful plan to deal with the problem. It has worked well. And now, rich, greedy people want to see seniors in poverty again, because, after all, as you said...it's their problem, not yours.

Social Security should remain as it is. The govt puts the money in a pool, invests it, and doesn't get stuck with the enormous fees that the 401ks are. Social Security benefits from the scale of economy. If you do "A," then you get "B." It works because if you die, then your benefits end, but stay in the pool. That way, if you live longer than expected, your benefits don't end, because of the pool.

Social Security without a pool is not "social" or "secure." If you want, and since you have money, you can invest $100/month for 45 years, in addition to your small SS tax you pay, and you will live in style in your senior years. Most others in America are not that lucky.

You need to throw off your attitude and go work in the real world for a year, then come back and give your opinion of what it's like to work as a waiter for a living as an adult (not temporarily as a college kid), or as a janitor. Better yet, start over...be born in a state and city far from financial institutions and artistic people. Your world consists of cows and tractors. You are taught to earn an honest living. There's no talk of college. People there don't go to college. There's no talk of working as a broker or professor. That's not in your world. You are expected to work at the local factory or whatever. There's no $100 to invest, and you wouldn't know the first thing about how to do that.

Try being a little more empathetic and opening your mind and learning about other people. They're not all like you. Everyone is different...and to be equally respected.
I totally get that people in disadvantaged circumstances often have it tougher than most others. Growing up and living in a poor area of Appalachia that is definitely "wrong side of the tracks" in today's economy, I see it firsthand on a daily basis. People here don't go to college, and yes, the expectation for a lot of people my age was to work in the mines or factories. I'm one of those disadvantaged in the real world. I wish I had been born and raised in a rich area like Connecticut or Massachusetts and not Tennessee - I wonder what I'd have achieved then. I try to bring a working class perspective to these forums where most people are middle class or above.

With that said, if you can't find $100/month to save, you need to either cut costs, take a second job, or raise your income. That's a small amount - had you been saving this since 1995, you'd have enough to buy a mid-range sedan by now. Not nothing, but it's not a lot over the timeframe. It's certainly not enough to be a serious retirement contribution.

Tuition/fees at the University of Tennessee - Knoxville are about $14,000 annually. If you have a 3.0 average in high school and a 21 ACT (pretty much the baseline for UT-K admissions), the TN lottery scholarship will pay around $3,500 per year in aid for freshman and sophomores, and $5,000 per year for juniors and seniors. This is something that you can get by default if you meet those minimums and simply apply. That brings the annual cost of tuition, fees, books to around $10,000 annually before any other need or merit based aid is accounted for.

This is in reach of the average family around here with student loans, even if nothing was saved. If they had only been saving for the kid's education for ten years, that's like an additional car payment to fully pay for the kid's education. It is significant but not unreasonable, and they could still have some leftover for retirement, provided they have little other debt and live reasonably.

You can track an index and outperform your SS contributions. Get into the Vanguard 500 fund, plow money into it like it's going out of style, keep your expenses low, and wait. I agree that most people aren't sophisticated investors but this is really a passive approach.

Investment and financial education is easy to come by these days, probably easier than at any time in history. Anyone can log into Investopedia to get basic information. There is all sorts of information out there on various market sectors, markets themselves, individual stocks, ETFs, mutual funds, the ability to trade about anything you have an interest in. When I was in college during the financial crisis, a lot of us in the business school opened up eTrade accounts and made some money with 3x short financials and buying Ford at the bottom. Granted, we were broke college kids and I made only a couple thousand bucks on it that year, but there was a rush to it, it was cheap, and we learned a lot.

A lot of your post comes off as conservatives/Trump wanting to push Granny over the cliff.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 07:48 AM
 
100 posts, read 65,428 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
You have no idea of the amount of money that the working and middle-middle class earn, if you think most people have $100/month for 45 years to "invest." Many have no expendable income, many others have little.

Social Security was started because there was a need. The MAJORITY of seniors were living in abject poverty. It turned out to be one of the most successful programs in the country, and worked to resolve the problem that existed. Only about 20% of seniors now live in poverty.

In this country we have people at all income levels. It is a fact of life that of a population, there will necessarily be those at the bottom income level, and someone will be at the top. They will not all be at the top. The universe doesn't work that way.

All people, even you, make the wrong choices sometimes. Lucky you that your choices didn't determine that you would not have much income the rest of your life. Others were not so lucky. Also, we don't all get the same start in life. Born with bad parents, in a bad part of town, or without much of an IQ, or with some disability...many are destined to be low wage earners. And that's okay. As long as they work to support themselves and are productive members of our society.

All workers are due respect. We need cashiers, janitors, maids, clerks, and others in the working class. We certainly need them more than we need another stockbroker. The working and middle classes work hard for a living, but many will be poor in their senior years. Even the middle class, who have all the bills to go along with supporting a family in these days when things are so expensive, struggle to save. There is no longer the hope of paying for college educations for kids AND saving enough for retirement. That American Dream is gone.

Also... people don't know how to invest. It's too easy to invest in the wrong thing, or to have your investment eaten away by institution fees. The privatization scheme for Social Security is a giveaway to the financial institutions - the big donors of politicians.

Seniors in poverty is the concern of all of us, and most certainly of the government. It is fitting that the govt came up with a successful plan to deal with the problem. It has worked well. And now, rich, greedy people want to see seniors in poverty again, because, after all, as you said...it's their problem, not yours.

Social Security should remain as it is. The govt puts the money in a pool, invests it, and doesn't get stuck with the enormous fees that the 401ks are. Social Security benefits from the scale of economy. If you do "A," then you get "B." It works because if you die, then your benefits end, but stay in the pool. That way, if you live longer than expected, your benefits don't end, because of the pool.

Social Security without a pool is not "social" or "secure." If you want, and since you have money, you can invest $100/month for 45 years, in addition to your small SS tax you pay, and you will live in style in your senior years. Most others in America are not that lucky.

You need to throw off your attitude and go work in the real world for a year, then come back and give your opinion of what it's like to work as a waiter for a living as an adult (not temporarily as a college kid), or as a janitor. Better yet, start over...be born in a state and city far from financial institutions and artistic people. Your world consists of cows and tractors. You are taught to earn an honest living. There's no talk of college. People there don't go to college. There's no talk of working as a broker or professor. That's not in your world. You are expected to work at the local factory or whatever. There's no $100 to invest, and you wouldn't know the first thing about how to do that.

Try being a little more empathetic and opening your mind and learning about other people. They're not all like you. Everyone is different...and to be equally respected.
You missed the whole point. I did not say anything about changing SS. What I see here is a lot of people wringing their hands in fear that it is going to change or be taken away from them. Of course there are those who are disadvantaged in some way. My point is, you don't have to stay where you are. You can improve your situation where you do not have to rely on the government to take care of you.


For your information, I did grow up rural and my world did consist of cows and tractors. That's how I learned to work hard and I still live rural. I never went to a four year college and I have worked in industry my entire life; many of those years as a shift worker so yes, I do know the first thing about how to do that.


You're right about one thing. The working and middle classes work hard for a living, but many will be poor in their senior years. My point is that they don't have to be; but they have to make the effort to change their situation. Is it easy? No, it's hard. That's why a lot of people don't do it and I see and work with them all the time. They will cry that they don't have $100 to invest but they have televisions, cell phones, and their retirement plan consists of spending money on lottery tickets every week. They claim they don't know anything about investing but they will spend hours watching TV instead of reading and trying to learn.


Don't like your situation? Then do something about it. If we were face to face I could spend all day telling you about people who have started out disadvantaged and rose up to do great things in their lives. A friend of mine worked as a janitor his entire career. Yes, it didn't pay much; but he enjoyed it and he did something with it. When he passed, he left his wife a sizeable nest egg so she will be set for life. While he was living, he was either working, reading, attending classes or enjoying his family; but he couldn't tell you who got voted off the island or who couldn't dance or who the biggest loser was.


Then I see the other side of the coin. Those in the grocery store paying with a WIPP card and laughing about how they are "beating the system." They can't afford food but they can afford tattoos, piercings and cigarettes. Or the people sitting next to me in the restaurant where one is about to go for a job interview and the other cautioning him to be careful not to get "too good of a job that you loose your state check."


So yes, I understand the world better than you think I do; and yes, there are those who are in situations where they cannot help themselves. I will, and do bend over backwards to help them. But don't ask me to bend forward for those who remain in situations caused by bad choices and then expect the rest of us to feel sorry and cry with them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top