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Old 11-16-2016, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,649 posts, read 17,623,979 times
Reputation: 27733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratman View Post
You're right about one thing. The working and middle classes work hard for a living, but many will be poor in their senior years. My point is that they don't have to be; but they have to make the effort to change their situation. Is it easy? No, it's hard. That's why a lot of people don't do it and I see and work with them all the time. They will cry that they don't have $100 to invest but they have televisions, cell phones, and their retirement plan consists of spending money on lottery tickets every week. They claim they don't know anything about investing but they will spend hours watching TV instead of reading and trying to learn.

Don't like your situation? Then do something about it. If we were face to face I could spend all day telling you about people who have started out disadvantaged and rose up to do great things in their lives. A friend of mine worked as a janitor his entire career. Yes, it didn't pay much; but he enjoyed it and he did something with it. When he passed, he left his wife a sizeable nest egg so she will be set for life. While he was living, he was either working, reading, attending classes or enjoying his family; but he couldn't tell you who got voted off the island or who couldn't dance or who the biggest loser was.

So yes, I understand the world better than you think I do; and yes, there are those who are in situations where they cannot help themselves. I will, and do bend over backwards to help them. But don't ask me to bend forward for those who remain in situations caused by bad choices and then expect the rest of us to feel sorry and cry with them.
I think one thing posts like his just miss the mark completely on is that they assume the person in the disadvantaged circumstance has little to no control over his circumstance, that he's just in this boat being rocked around at sea.

There are things we can't control, but there are plenty of things we can. Back in 2013, I had lost half my income from 2012. What was supposed to be a few month "stop over" back here in my hometown before moving to Charlotte/Raleigh/Nashville turned out to be a year and a half on an extremely low income with debt piling up. I was depressed to the point of feeling suicidal over the job situation, working part-time for about $11/hr with no benefits. I had to remember that:

1) I got myself in that mess by moving back from a better paying job in a healthier area. I took a risk by taking a low paying job thinking it would be very temporary but misjudged how bad the economy in the South was.

2) I could sit in my hometown and continue crying about my circumstances or do something about it. Had I stayed, not moved, and not gotten more skills, I might be making half of my current salary. I did something about it - moved to a place I would never have expected, doubled the salary I was making, got benefits, and moved forward.

Yes, the economy was bad at the time and I was the victim of circumstances out of my control. Still, more was in my control than out, which is why I was able to move on.

 
Old 11-16-2016, 08:03 AM
 
2,446 posts, read 2,077,630 times
Reputation: 5706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Medicare is toast. Ryan will have clear sailing pushing it to a voucher system. That gives insurance companies a piece of the action, and they are drooling. The bottom line is, if you don't have medicare you aren't getting it, ever.
Yikes, I hope they don't go to a voucher system and seniors will have to find an insurance policy. Rates will always go up and vouchers will never cover near enough to be affordable.

What do politicians care as they will have tax payer covered insurance for life.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 09:45 AM
 
451 posts, read 178,884 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
This entire post is an exercise in unreality.

How would you like it if the next time you take a cruise, there were no maids to make your bed and clean your cabin? How about if there were no waiters to serve you your food? How about if there were no window cleaners, pool maintenance people, or any people doing the low-paying jobs aboard a ship?

This post is typical of a person who broad-brushes the reasons why some people are poor or lower middle class. Three kids before 21, really???????????

Oh, and just for the record, I am not on Facebook, nor do I use Instagram or Snapchat. I am relying on my social security (in addition to a few tens of thousands in a savings account) to get by. I do not 'feel sorry' for myself; in fact I am rather proud of myself for being in the financial position I find myself in today. After a chaotic life, I own a house and a car and have no credit card debt (don't even use one). In fact, the only bills I have are the utility bills and real estate taxes.

So, breathe your rarified air, and look down your nose at others who are less fortunate if it makes you feel good. People who need to denigrate others generally are rather insecure. Good luck to you.

Well...if you knew.... most employees on any cruise ship who are considered "crew" are from Indonesia and the Philippines.
This is because most Americans would never consider working for 180 days straight for approximately $10 a day. And if you think that my suite will not be cleaned or gourmet meal not prepared; know that most of these jobs are so prized that they are passed down from one generation to the next. And most of these people would give their right arm to be a US citizen and have the opportunities we have.

Oh.....and if you think having 3 kids by the age of 21 is an oddity visit that cesspool of a city in your state called Newark.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,130 posts, read 13,643,867 times
Reputation: 22168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Ryan's plan is to end both Social Security and Medicare. The plan is fleshed out. He's presented at least the SS part for vote in the House, I believe.

His plan doesn't do it all in one year. It's a thing that's accomplished in stages. Of course, once you remove the pool aspect and other features of both programs, the programs are no longer "Social Security" and "Medicare." They will, as Newt Gingrich once said, "wither on the vine."

The Repubs have been quite forthright about this. Bush was hoping to get SS privatized, but didn't make it. So take them at their word. They now have both the executive and legislative branches of government.

I'm not so naive to think that it won't affect current beneficiaries. If you "tinker" with the contributions, the beneficiaries will be affected. It may be called something else (like, a necessary slight reduction in benefits, so that "the program is sound").
Good synopsis, and I agree
 
Old 11-16-2016, 11:05 AM
 
29,813 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
Yikes, I hope they don't go to a voucher system and seniors will have to find an insurance policy. Rates will always go up and vouchers will never cover near enough to be affordable.

What do politicians care as they will have tax payer covered insurance for life.
The voucher is not intended to be sufficient over the long term. It is meant to cap govt spending with individuals supplementing basic coverage with their own money
 
Old 11-16-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: SW US
2,223 posts, read 2,040,423 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post

I'm not so naive to think that it won't affect current beneficiaries. If you "tinker" with the contributions, the beneficiaries will be affected. It may be called something else (like, a necessary slight reduction in benefits, so that "the program is sound").
If they cut payments to doctors, more will drop out of Medicare and it will eventually be gone.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 11:46 AM
 
29,813 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I think one thing posts like his just miss the mark completely on is that they assume the person in the disadvantaged circumstance has little to no control over his circumstance, that he's just in this boat being rocked around at sea.

There are things we can't control, but there are plenty of things we can. Back in 2013, I had lost half my income from 2012. What was supposed to be a few month "stop over" back here in my hometown before moving to Charlotte/Raleigh/Nashville turned out to be a year and a half on an extremely low income with debt piling up. I was depressed to the point of feeling suicidal over the job situation, working part-time for about $11/hr with no benefits. I had to remember that:

1) I got myself in that mess by moving back from a better paying job in a healthier area. I took a risk by taking a low paying job thinking it would be very temporary but misjudged how bad the economy in the South was.

2) I could sit in my hometown and continue crying about my circumstances or do something about it. Had I stayed, not moved, and not gotten more skills, I might be making half of my current salary. I did something about it - moved to a place I would never have expected, doubled the salary I was making, got benefits, and moved forward.

Yes, the economy was bad at the time and I was the victim of circumstances out of my control. Still, more was in my control than out, which is why I was able to move on.
I understand your situation. It is a common path and one of the reasons why so much wealth and job creation in this country have gone coastal. Elections won't change that and dollars along with intellectual capital will flow to where those who own them want to land.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,649 posts, read 17,623,979 times
Reputation: 27733
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
I understand your situation. It is a common path and one of the reasons why so much wealth and job creation in this country have gone coastal. Elections won't change that and dollars along with intellectual capital will flow to where those who own them want to land.
The coastal metros have always had an advantage, but I think that's getting more pronounced. In flyover states, you're seeing increasingly fewer metros basically becoming "winner take most." In most states, especially flyover country, you're seeing a few blue counties that are mostly major cities and college towns in a sea of red.

Here in my hometown, we have a Fortune 500 chemical plant that once hired lots of local staff. Growing up, probably half of our school's kids had at least one parent working there in some capacity. You had everyone from shop floor workers to research scientists to white collar office staff working there.

Not only has that plant shed jobs,but many of the white collar and more sophisticated jobs that used to be done in house are now contracted out to bigger metros. This place has few financial staff in house - that's been outsourced and maybe offshored. Most of the IT work has been outsourced and some has been offshored.

Many of those who were laid off from a good job moved off. The jobs that have been created are mostly low wage, low skill, service sector jobs. Today, it's far more likely that mom or dad work in retail, food service, call center, or lower end medical work (lots of nursing homes here to care for the older than average population) than a professional, white collar job or blue collar job. I'm fortunate to have a well paying, white collar job in this area, but there is almost no networking/professional scene unlike Indianapolis, Des Moines, Greenville, or Boston - other areas I've been for awhile. You wouldn't expect the scene to be as big, but you would think it would "scale down" to the population, but it doesn't seem to even do that - it barely exists. As for the "young professional" scene, basically forget it - it doesn't exist.

The "hollowing out" of the small towns and rural areas hasn't just been in the closed up steel mills, shuttered mines, abandoned factories, etc., that we think of. These areas are shedding white collar staff as well, and often sending those office workers to major metros. Meanwhile, Nashville is growing by leaps and bounds. It's the "winner" for Tennessee.

If Trump and the Republicans repeal SS, they will be out of power in the rural areas with older than average populations for at least a generation.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 01:40 PM
 
29,813 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The coastal metros have always had an advantage, but I think that's getting more pronounced. In flyover states, you're seeing increasingly fewer metros basically becoming "winner take most." In most states, especially flyover country, you're seeing a few blue counties that are mostly major cities and college towns in a sea of red.

Here in my hometown, we have a Fortune 500 chemical plant that once hired lots of local staff. Growing up, probably half of our school's kids had at least one parent working there in some capacity. You had everyone from shop floor workers to research scientists to white collar office staff working there.

Not only has that plant shed jobs,but many of the white collar and more sophisticated jobs that used to be done in house are now contracted out to bigger metros. This place has few financial staff in house - that's been outsourced and maybe offshored. Most of the IT work has been outsourced and some has been offshored.

Many of those who were laid off from a good job moved off. The jobs that have been created are mostly low wage, low skill, service sector jobs. Today, it's far more likely that mom or dad work in retail, food service, call center, or lower end medical work (lots of nursing homes here to care for the older than average population) than a professional, white collar job or blue collar job. I'm fortunate to have a well paying, white collar job in this area, but there is almost no networking/professional scene unlike Indianapolis, Des Moines, Greenville, or Boston - other areas I've been for awhile. You wouldn't expect the scene to be as big, but you would think it would "scale down" to the population, but it doesn't seem to even do that - it barely exists. As for the "young professional" scene, basically forget it - it doesn't exist.

The "hollowing out" of the small towns and rural areas hasn't just been in the closed up steel mills, shuttered mines, abandoned factories, etc., that we think of. These areas are shedding white collar staff as well, and often sending those office workers to major metros. Meanwhile, Nashville is growing by leaps and bounds. It's the "winner" for Tennessee.

If Trump and the Republicans repeal SS, they will be out of power in the rural areas with older than average populations for at least a generation.
There are manufacturing companies that were in the non urban areas of the country that over the years shifted management to more affluent and in their minds desirable places to live and left the production facilities behind. Folks left behind need to be glad they didn't take that with them. Of course leaving it kept production costs down.
 
Old 11-16-2016, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,932,841 times
Reputation: 7701
I think this is wise advice to all....the less you rely on gov and the retirement programs it "manages" like SS, the better. Yes, all working people put money into the SS system/should get something back in retirement but the bottom line reality is there's no way I'd rely on that as my major or sole source of income in retirement and plan for the money to arrive in year "X" in retirement. Assuming one gets some money from it in retirement, consider it a bonus. Instead my view is create/provide for your own nest-egg largely throughout your working years and I think one will be far better off. I think one has far more control over their financial path/will have greater success than relying on gov and changes that might/might not result over the years/decades one has no control over. For those who use the excuse that they can't save/invest/figure it out, saving/investing for retirement over the long term is not at all complicated either....I think anyone can figure out how simple it is if they just put some basic effort into it. I've worked with many people who did far more research on what smartphone to buy than give thought to their retirement savings/investing plan.
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