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Old 11-22-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: SW US
2,220 posts, read 2,036,902 times
Reputation: 3824

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
A lot of people think all health care should be free. The problem is if you take all profit out of being a doctor you will most likely lose a lot of good people who would choose other fields because there wouldn't be any money in it. Besides nothing can really be "free".
Or maybe you would gain good people to be good doctors who care more about healing than getting rich?

 
Old 11-22-2016, 09:47 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,172,693 times
Reputation: 8464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
We've paid into Social Security all of our lives. There will be hell to pay if anyone takes that away. If they do, they'd better write us all a check for what we've all paid in to it.
Adjusted for inflation? But no return on investment? It doesn't matter, because no such checks will ever be issued. If they take away SS, they will do it in small pieces, by making changes to rules, etc., each taking away a relatively small amount which people won't complain about. They have to make thousands of such changes to it, to take it all away. For example, change the COLA, to a formula that doesn't give as big an increase, thereby letting inflation consume a small amount of the benefits. And change Medicare, to cost a larger percentage of your SS benefit, and to give you less coverage. After thousands of such changes, SS will be practically worthless, with no need to ever write anyone any checks. But don't worry, they will probably give seniors some kind of welfare or something, once their SS becomes worthless. And they won't have to eat dog food either. They can eat the grass in their back yard.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
1,190 posts, read 1,297,786 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
Or maybe you would gain good people to be good doctors who care more about healing than getting rich?
Well then they would already be doing that wouldn't they? Hospital costs are insane.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 05:02 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
Or maybe you would gain good people to be good doctors who care more about healing than getting rich?
Ummmm or who care about paying back their education debt which often means getting rich was is a good thing. I realize not everyone has a profit drive in their DNA but many and do. They are often the ones taking the risk and investing the time and energy to get richer. That being said we shouldn't get upset if there is a growing wealth gap as it would seem you are suggesting people on the lower side of the gap are happy to have the drive for not being wealthy as part of their DNA.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 05:06 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
No doubt some kind of middle ground must be found because the system is not working. It doesn't seem fair that an entire lifetime of workingsavings can be wiped out with one catastrophic illness does it?
Isn't that better than the alternative of a lifetime of living being wiped out by death because you couldn't afford the treatment? Isn't that part of the planning process being prepared or death?
 
Old 11-23-2016, 05:07 AM
 
6,625 posts, read 3,752,330 times
Reputation: 13703
Quote:
Originally Posted by jteskal View Post
He's not even in office yet. Let's see what he does then. After all, he could be gone in 4 years and if you're not 61, then this really does not matter as much.
If you are younger than 62, this matters even MORE. If you are 50, there isn't time to change plans for your senior years. Especially if you're laid off in a few years in an upcoming recession, after which you may be forced to use your retirement savings to live on, after your emergency fund runs out.

If you are 50, you can't go back in time and save more. If you get your SS contributions in an account, they won't be what you think, esp after Merrill Lynch fees are taken out. Those fees will be taken out every year, on the same amount ("management" fees). $100 in year 1 will have 0.025% (or whatever the mgmt fee is) taken out, then again taken out in year 2, then again taken out in year 3, and so on. On the same $100.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 05:19 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
If you are younger than 62, this matters even MORE. If you are 50, there isn't time to change plans for your senior years. Especially if you're laid off in a few years in an upcoming recession, after which you may be forced to use your retirement savings to live on, after your emergency fund runs out.

If you are 50, you can't go back in time and save more. If you get your SS contributions in an account, they won't be what you think, esp after Merrill Lynch fees are taken out. Those fees will be taken out every year, on the same amount ("management" fees). $100 in year 1 will have 0.025% (or whatever the mgmt fee is) taken out, then again taken out in year 2, then again taken out in year 3, and so on. On the same $100.
These proposals have been on the horizon for years. Many younger workers don't believe SS will be there for them and hopefully they have started to plan for alternatives. Perhaps we should blame Democrats for resisting change to SS and Medicare changes over the years. Perhaps if the changes had occurred a decade ago the pain of a transition wouldn't have been as great as the urgency for change wouldn't have been as great.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
219 posts, read 131,968 times
Reputation: 381
You don't have to go back too far to see the problem with privatization - 2008 financial meltdown. So the Republicans say, "You should look after your own retirement savings." This assumption is that everyone starts out on a level playing field. People, for whatever reason reach retirement age never really holding down a job not much better than minimum wage, or were disabled physically or mentally are never going to be able to take care of their own retirement years. So, if they are lucky, and don't have a "pre-existing condition" work into their 70s and 80s until medical problems force them out of the workforce. Whether or not they did, or did not "expect SS to be around when they reached retirement age."

The Conservative view? "Oh, well. That's hard cheese." My opinion, these conservatives don't really understand what Christianity stands for or is really about. My sister, who goes to church frequently pointed out a statistic that Republicans give more to charity than Democrats. On the surface this may seem commendable but it you remove all the donations that involve a plaque attached to a building, i.e. getting credit for the donation, I suspect the gap would disappear. Statistics are misleading and have been since Mark Twain's famous quote.

So, as a society, do we resolve to take care of our citizens or let the elderly homeless (and suffering) population explode, throw up our hands and go on our merry way for the Saturday afternoon sail on our yacht that we bought with the money we saved on our taxes?
 
Old 11-23-2016, 07:27 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djkingman View Post
You don't have to go back too far to see the problem with privatization - 2008 financial meltdown. So the Republicans say, "You should look after your own retirement savings." This assumption is that everyone starts out on a level playing field. People, for whatever reason reach retirement age never really holding down a job not much better than minimum wage, or were disabled physically or mentally are never going to be able to take care of their own retirement years. So, if they are lucky, and don't have a "pre-existing condition" work into their 70s and 80s until medical problems force them out of the workforce. Whether or not they did, or did not "expect SS to be around when they reached retirement age."

The Conservative view? "Oh, well. That's hard cheese." My opinion, these conservatives don't really understand what Christianity stands for or is really about. My sister, who goes to church frequently pointed out a statistic that Republicans give more to charity than Democrats. On the surface this may seem commendable but it you remove all the donations that involve a plaque attached to a building, i.e. getting credit for the donation, I suspect the gap would disappear. Statistics are misleading and have been since Mark Twain's famous quote.

So, as a society, do we resolve to take care of our citizens or let the elderly homeless (and suffering) population explode, throw up our hands and go on our merry way for the Saturday afternoon sail on our yacht that we bought with the money we saved on our taxes?
It isn't whether Conservatives don't understand it is about elected leaders understanding and implementing fiscal sanity. With a 20 Trillion dollar debt it is the poor who stand the most to lose when fiscal soundness becomes undone. Witness many urban areas and some states most notably Illinois. Do we really want to find ourselves in the position Greece is in with no one wanting to lend them money and needing to drastically cut public salaries, benefits and services to get someone to lend to them at a high rate of return. That is not in the best interest of anyone other than those with the resources to buy at a discount.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,908,427 times
Reputation: 13856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djkingman View Post
You don't have to go back too far to see the problem with privatization - 2008 financial meltdown. So the Republicans say, "You should look after your own retirement savings." This assumption is that everyone starts out on a level playing field. People, for whatever reason reach retirement age never really holding down a job not much better than minimum wage, or were disabled physically or mentally are never going to be able to take care of their own retirement years. So, if they are lucky, and don't have a "pre-existing condition" work into their 70s and 80s until medical problems force them out of the workforce. Whether or not they did, or did not "expect SS to be around when they reached retirement age."

The Conservative view? "Oh, well. That's hard cheese." My opinion, these conservatives don't really understand what Christianity stands for or is really about. My sister, who goes to church frequently pointed out a statistic that Republicans give more to charity than Democrats. On the surface this may seem commendable but it you remove all the donations that involve a plaque attached to a building, i.e. getting credit for the donation, I suspect the gap would disappear. Statistics are misleading and have been since Mark Twain's famous quote.

So, as a society, do we resolve to take care of our citizens or let the elderly homeless (and suffering) population explode, throw up our hands and go on our merry way for the Saturday afternoon sail on our yacht that we bought with the money we saved on our taxes?
I say we take the elderly homeless and suffering with us on that yacht cruise next Saturday. We're going to need some deck hands and a cleanup crew.
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