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Old 12-02-2016, 12:39 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705

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Hmmmm well it seems GOP unity is hitting a wall on Medicare:

GOP's Medicare plans run into wall in the Senate - POLITICO

Quote:
The GOP’s dream of privatizing parts of Medicare is running up against resistance among Senate Republicans.

Interviews with more than a dozen GOP lawmakers reveal they’re not planning to pursue big changes to the popular health care program for seniors — at least not in the first year of the Trump administration.

That hesitation starts with the chairman who would lead any overhaul in the Senate.

“We’ll have to see,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), head of the Senate Finance Committee, which oversees Medicare. “We’re going to have a whole new look at a lot of things. … It depends on what it is. It depends on how it is written. It depends on what it would do.”

 
Old 12-02-2016, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,574,904 times
Reputation: 27672
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Have you looked at the uninsured rates in Alabama and Mississippi where Diabetes for them can become a unaffordable medial incident?
Alright, let's go with that.

Like I mentioned, these conditions are generally not unavoidable. There are high rates of diabetes because they are obese, sedentary, and their diet sucks. There may not be enough medical providers in the area. True, they may not be able to afford medical care, but giving someone medications to treat their conditions when they are unwilling to make the lifestyle accommodations to "fix" the problem is just treating symptoms.

You can give sore throat lozenges to someone screaming for hours. The lozenges may treat the symptom but they are not fixing the problem.

The people who most need the coverage probably can't afford it, don't know how to get it, etc. Yes, a lack of medical insurance is a problem, but it's one among many in a complex system.

We should have either gone to single payer or left the system alone. As it stands now, we have largely gotten the worst of both private health care and government run healthcare with the efficiencies of neither.
 
Old 12-02-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,574,904 times
Reputation: 27672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
But you see (or perhaps you don't), the vast majority of those on Medicare are not you and they don't have the financial resources to cope with drastic increases that Ryan's plan would foist upon them. They just don't. For whatever reason, they don't.

It isn't just Medicare though. As I've previously written, the US is reaching the point that it no longer can afford its own healthcare system. This system has morphed into a grotesque hodgepodge of disparate healthcare crutches that really don't make a lot of sense and are no longer financially viable.

The best alternative would simply be to expand Medicare to all, put a reasonable cap on the 20% payment thus getting rid of the Advantage and Medigap company leaches, allow drug negotiations. If Ryan were seriously concerned about Medicare, he would go this route. But he is a fraud and any plan that he might come up with won't help anyone, it would be an overlooked accident if it did.
You're assuming that Ryan's plan gets through without other Republicans and Democrats softening it, and that's before it even gets to Trump's desk. That's a stretch.

I agree we have a Frankenstein monster now that we can no longer maintain.
 
Old 12-02-2016, 01:00 PM
 
30,108 posts, read 47,344,680 times
Reputation: 16051
This is one of the richest countries in the world...
we can afford it...
We just don't have politicians with the guts and intelligence and moral authority to place the needs of America and its people above that of big business...
And we don't have citizens/voters who understand or apparently even WANT to protect their own interests...
Check out the article about how poor people in KY counties who participated in the KYnect ACA plan and got decent health coverage voted overwhelmingly for the Republican candidate for governor who has every intention of gutting that program...and causing them to lose their coverage...

Paul Ryan would prefer to gut Medicare, Medicaid, ACA, SS because he does not believe that big government is better than big business...
Like individuals can compete against big Pharma or big insurance companies...

He won't get big business OUT of government and instead blames all the ills of the system on big government...never politicians unless they are Democrats, never lobbyists who write bills that are endorsed by politicians on both sides of the aisle depending on the case in point...

And he isn't the only politician like that...
But Republicans political focus is about doing away with big government...
How can you effectively operate a massive enterprise that you don't believe is a positive influence???
They are about tearing down government...
Democrats believe that government is the bulwark and foundation that protects and helps build better lives for people...
Republicans by their very philosophy should never set foot in government...
 
Old 12-02-2016, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,159 posts, read 3,007,855 times
Reputation: 13830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
But you see (or perhaps you don't), the vast majority of those on Medicare are not you and they don't have the financial resources to cope with drastic increases that Ryan's plan would foist upon them. They just don't. For whatever reason, they don't.

It isn't just Medicare though. As I've previously written, the US is reaching the point that it no longer can afford its own healthcare system. This system has morphed into a grotesque hodgepodge of disparate healthcare crutches that really don't make a lot of sense and are no longer financially viable.

The best alternative would simply be to expand Medicare to all, put a reasonable cap on the 20% payment thus getting rid of the Advantage and Medigap company leaches, allow drug negotiations. If Ryan were seriously concerned about Medicare, he would go this route. But he is a fraud and any plan that he might come up with won't help anyone, it would be an overlooked accident if it did.
Our best hope for survival at this point, is that there will be at least two or three republican senators who have some traces of humanitarian values left in them, who along with all the Democrats, will block destructive measures. Or maybe they will just be worried about their own re-elections and still understand that Soc. Sec. and Medicare continue to be the third rail. Ryan can work all the evil he wants in the House and it will mean nothing, without a cooperating majority in the Senate.

I've got a great idea for a money-maker: A commode with a photo-reproduction of Ryan in the bottom of the bowl. Maj. Gen. "Beast" Butler, the brutal Union commander of the occupying force around New Orleans during the Civil War, was mocked with a similar item displaying his picture in the bottom and it became a very popular item.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...-the-big-easy/
 
Old 12-02-2016, 03:05 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,340,040 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrock4 View Post
The amazing result is many of the Trump supporters will be the ones really hurt from losing their safety net in many areas, but unfortunately will take the rest of us down with them.

No wonder Trump said he loved the "poorly educated", also probably meaning the uninformed or those who chose to not believe the warnings. Talk about the fox in the hen house . . .
^ ^ ^

I agree with is post.
 
Old 12-02-2016, 03:45 PM
Status: "North of Palm Trees, South of High Taxes" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,605 posts, read 6,696,297 times
Reputation: 4916
I guess we're going to find that people who are too stupid to vote in their own self interest, are going to end up severely disappointed or dead, down the road!
 
Old 12-02-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Retired
648 posts, read 497,811 times
Reputation: 1057
People do vote their own self interest. Who wants to vote for a candidate that wants:
Endless war
Outsourcing jobs
Open borders
Actually I took that from Republican speech writer Peggy Noonan, who was referring to Republicans. It applies to Democrats as well.
Some people in any given state were helped with the ACA and some were hurt, so their votes could cancel out. There were other issues besides health care too.
There wasn't a dimes worth of difference between Establishment candidates of either party, except Hillary was the most warlike.
 
Old 12-02-2016, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,919 posts, read 14,238,717 times
Reputation: 16096
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Rememember, tax cuts along with infrastructure spending will break the bank unless social programs are cut
No, Trump's plan was to shift monies from current-spending to infrastructure spending. For example, instead of giving $Billions to the UN for Climate Change, that money will go to infrastructure spending. Foreign Aid will be shifted to infrastructure spending, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Citizens United established that corporations are people who deserve representation.
Actually it was other case law that established that.

A corporation was never a legal person until Dartmouth v Woodward. The chief justice of the US Supreme Court at the time was Marshall, who said:

A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it, either expressly, or as incidental to its very existence.

That view (read the entire decision) led to the belief that corporate charters could only be granted if the corporation performed a public service. If you read these early articles of incorporation, you'll see they go to tremendous lengths to justify their usefulness to the public.

Which brings us to Amesbury Nail Factory Co. v. Weed, 17 Mass. 53 (1820)

In spite of the 1st Amendment's prohibition on establishing religion or preventing the free exercise thereof, Massachusetts permitted taxation to support churches.

Amesbury argued that the nail factory had no soul and so the tax didn't apply. The court ruled that the factory benefits in the same way an individual benefits from any tax, and so the tax must be paid.

That leads to Goodell Mfg. Co. v. Trask, 28 Mass. (1831).

The argument here was that since none of the shareholders lived in the church parish, the company could not be taxed. The court ruled that "a corporation is an independent legal person" and subject to the tax.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
As a shareholder wouldn't you agree that you and other shareholders have shared rights to be represented?
No, the shareholders are individually sufficient to represent the rights of the corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Your Road Map To Paul Ryan's Plan To Privatize Medicare

Quote:
Ryan has been pushing his privatization plan – or what he calls "premium support" – for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
You're assuming that Ryan's plan gets through without other Republicans and Democrats softening it, and that's before it even gets to Trump's desk. That's a stretch.
Um, it isn't Ryan's plan.

Ryan merely rehashed a plan put forth by Senator Breaux's (D) bipartisan commission in 1997 during the Clinton Administration. It only affects those who are 54 and younger.

The major component of Chairman Breaux’s proposal was the creation of a premium support system modeled on the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). Under this system, Medicare beneficiaries would be allowed to select health insurance coverage from a menu of private managed care plans or opt for the traditional fee-for-service plan. Managed care organizations would offer “standard option” as well as “high option” plans; for most seniors, premium support would be set at about 88 percent of the standard plan—a cost ultimately determined by the market. Those beneficiaries willing to incur the extra cost could alternatively purchase an expanded benefit package.

See page 3

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_...rtisan_353.pdf

Compare that with "Ryan's Plan":

The Medicare recipient would choose, from an array of guaranteed-coverage options, a health plan that best suits his or her needs. This is not a voucher program. A Medicare premium support payment would be paid, by Medicare, directly to the plan or the fee-for-service program to subsidize its cost. The program would operate in a manner similar to the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) program, where plans compete for individuals’ choice based upon premium amount and a certain percentage – or a defined contribution – is offset by the government to lower the cost of coverage.

Additionally, the program would adopt the competitive structure proven successful by Medicare Part D, the prescription drug benefit, to ensure affordability through market-based competition.


[emphasis mine]

See page 36.

https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_asse...olicyPaper.pdf
 
Old 12-02-2016, 05:26 PM
 
30,108 posts, read 47,344,680 times
Reputation: 16051
That war was far away and in all honesty affected few in America directly unless they are in the military or have foreign relatives

There will be a new war here at home when people see the intentions of those Republicans who think they have the golden ticket w/a Republican president and largely Republican Congress

Most Americans' risk of being targets of "radical Islam" is much, much less than of having their civil liberties compromised in this new era, of paying higher taxes, of paying more for worse health care when the dust settles...
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