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Old 11-15-2016, 02:36 PM
 
6,539 posts, read 1,339,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
I've just lived through the process of finding my MIL an independent living facility and then over the years we have had to move her to assisted living. I looked at many places. MIL did not have the money for a CCRC with a buy-in, and we wouldn't have gone with that if she did. I don't see how the buy-in plus the monthly costs are justified. In addition it would have locked her into a location that wouldn't have worked for us in our own retirement, or if we decided to move at a later date. We couldn't dream of not having her near to us, so we could help her in whatever she needs. We're her health care proxies, and have her POA. She trusts us, but not many other people. In addition we are her only living relatives except for distant nieces who really don't give a damn.

My point is CCRC is not necessary really, and seems to me to be a waste of money when facilities that are similar are available without the buy-in. It can also eliminate the possibility of moving to a different community if your support system moves away.
I agree, and I wonder if a costly retirement is a given for MOST people.

I am 63, my husband is 60, and according to various sources -- including threads like this on City Data -- it seems that most people think that you must be almost a millionaire to have a comfortable retirement.

Perhaps I am being unrealistic and biased because of my personal experiences with my husband's and my elderly relatives, but everyone except for 1) my FIL who had repeated heart problems since he was 50 and numerous hospital stays before dying at age 56, 2) my MIL who died at about age 65 from a massive one-time stroke (she was 5'1" and weighed 205, though) and 3) my (adopted) father who died at 59 from cancer, everyone in our families -- meaning ALL our grandparents and my mother -- lived to be at least 79 (most lived to be in their 90's) and stayed in their own homes until, at most, three months before they died -- and they lived as well as they ever had on just Social Security and Medicare. So instead of shelling out $3,500 or more each month, they did just fine for abut one-third to one-half of that in today's money. (However, to clarify, they all owned their homes outright, so they did not have rent or mortgage payments.)

It just seems to me that people would be better off with a home health aide (number of visits and hours based on actual need) until they really cannot live any longer on their own -- unless they just WANT to be live in a senior community.
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,767 posts, read 4,827,803 times
Reputation: 19395
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I bolded the above. What would MIL have done without your help?

For those considering CCRCs, there's often one overriding factor: we don't want to burden our children with decisions like the above. In many cases, there are no children to assume the burden.
DH and I have no children, and my siblings will all probably pass away long before I do (they already all have serious health challenges), so we will be that person with "no-one" to do these things for us. My MIL was so "well taken care of" by her hubby that she never paid a bill in her life, had never pumped her own gas, had never balanced a checkbook, and had no understanding at all of how banks, or investments, or government aid worked. They hadn't purchased a single item of modern technology in probably 20 years. I personally think Pop did her a disservice by allowing an educated, intelligent woman to be unable to handle her own finances, etc. We had to step in and take his place. We educated her as best we could at her age, and she was fine until memory issues came up. That really only happened in the last two years or so, she's 89. With modern financial practices such as direct deposit and auto bill-pay we find handling her stuff is a snap.

We're in a much different sort of place in our lives. Both of us lived on our own for many years and we both are capable of handling every detail of our financial stuff, and we both can do everything from cooking to yard work, etc. I will probably be the one left alone, DH is 5 years older. We're both very technically proficient. Before my mental state gets to the place that I can't handle my own affairs, I will move closer to my nieces and nephews and work with them on how I want things to be handled. I will create a plan with an elder care attorney to make a carefully selected niece or nephew be my healthcare proxy, I will do my advance healthcare directive, and will give the niece/nephew limited POA with attorney oversight for my finances. I have 9 nieces and nephews and their spouses to choose from. That relative will end up inheriting what I have left at the time of my death. Of course I will be rewarding them before that too. All this will be discussed and handled long before it's necessary. Barring a sudden stroke or car/plane crash before I can get this stuff done, I should be fine. At least I have a plan. MIL had no plan, no idea of what to do. I guess it never occurred to her that she wouldn't be taken care of as she had been from birth to grave.

We don't consider caring for DH's mom to be a burden. It's what family does. I will do my best not to be a burden to whomever I choose by providing for myself financially, and rewarding them accordingly. I would rather have the $250-$500k endowment going to a trusted family member than to some CCRC.

Last edited by TheShadow; 11-16-2016 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 11-19-2016, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 26,200,766 times
Reputation: 14611
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
I agree, and I wonder if a costly retirement is a given for MOST people.

I am 63, my husband is 60, and according to various sources -- including threads like this on City Data -- it seems that most people think that you must be almost a millionaire to have a comfortable retirement.

Perhaps I am being unrealistic and biased because of my personal experiences with my husband's and my elderly relatives, but everyone except for 1) my FIL who had repeated heart problems since he was 50 and numerous hospital stays before dying at age 56, 2) my MIL who died at about age 65 from a massive one-time stroke (she was 5'1" and weighed 205, though) and 3) my (adopted) father who died at 59 from cancer, everyone in our families -- meaning ALL our grandparents and my mother -- lived to be at least 79 (most lived to be in their 90's) and stayed in their own homes until, at most, three months before they died -- and they lived as well as they ever had on just Social Security and Medicare. So instead of shelling out $3,500 or more each month, they did just fine for abut one-third to one-half of that in today's money. (However, to clarify, they all owned their homes outright, so they did not have rent or mortgage payments.)

It just seems to me that people would be better off with a home health aide (number of visits and hours based on actual need) until they really cannot live any longer on their own -- unless they just WANT to be live in a senior community.
That's my plan right now. I do have Long Term Care Insurance to help pay for the aide if needed when I'm an oldtimer.
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,844,519 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
I agree, and I wonder if a costly retirement is a given for MOST people.

I am 63, my husband is 60, and according to various sources -- including threads like this on City Data -- it seems that most people think that you must be almost a millionaire to have a comfortable retirement.

Perhaps I am being unrealistic and biased because of my personal experiences with my husband's and my elderly relatives, but everyone except for 1) my FIL who had repeated heart problems since he was 50 and numerous hospital stays before dying at age 56, 2) my MIL who died at about age 65 from a massive one-time stroke (she was 5'1" and weighed 205, though) and 3) my (adopted) father who died at 59 from cancer, everyone in our families -- meaning ALL our grandparents and my mother -- lived to be at least 79 (most lived to be in their 90's) and stayed in their own homes until, at most, three months before they died -- and they lived as well as they ever had on just Social Security and Medicare. So instead of shelling out $3,500 or more each month, they did just fine for abut one-third to one-half of that in today's money. (However, to clarify, they all owned their homes outright, so they did not have rent or mortgage payments.)

It just seems to me that people would be better off with a home health aide (number of visits and hours based on actual need) until they really cannot live any longer on their own -- unless they just WANT to be live in a senior community.
Yes and no. There are a number of folks here who do just fine on much less than a million. You do have the right of it. Experts in the field do say if you want X you will need Y. That goes without saying. But Z is the outcome when X and Y meet. But Z can be reached in other ways. Z could be reach by L squared as well. Z could also be reached with H minus M equals H.

X = retirement
Y = Lots of money
L = love
H = home
M = mortgage
Z = happiness and contentment
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
2,435 posts, read 3,660,491 times
Reputation: 4785
The high buy-in price for CCRC's is baffling to me. Is it because:
  • The high buy-in limits the length of the wait list and wait time?
    The high buy-in assures only people of means, and similar lifestyles, are admitted?
    The high buy-in assures, or nearly assures, space availability in the higher care modules if and when necessary?
    The high buy-in provides capital for the managing organization? The 90% return ration seems to contradict this.
    The high buy-in provides operating income for the managing organization? The high monthly fees seem to contradict this, at least partially.

For example, It might cost a person/couple $400,000 for the right to rent a unit for the fee of $2,500 per occupant per month. You or your heirs will receive a return of $360,000 of your initial outlay when you leave.
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Prescott AZ
6,119 posts, read 9,073,863 times
Reputation: 11540
I just fished the slick, glossy brochure for Butterfield Trail Village (Fayetteville, AR) out of the garbage, after seeing the entrance and maintenance fees.

To enter for a studio (405 sf) its $80,000 with $1667 monthly fee.
To get a two bedroom (843 sf) its $155000 with a monthly fee of $2436
To get a village home, entrance fee is $305000 with main. fee of $3493. The home is 1600 sf, but there are bigger ones too. Also bigger prices.

These rates are for one person. You add $35000 for the second person for entrance fee, and another $1000 on top of the maintenance fee to add a second person.

In additon: There is a wait list ! You need to send a $2000 deposit with your app. which is non refundable ! This all provides lifetime care including nursing care if needed.

The place is gorgeous but so are the fees. It's going back into the trash right now.
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Old 11-19-2016, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 26,200,766 times
Reputation: 14611
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxBarb View Post
I just fished the slick, glossy brochure for Butterfield Trail Village (Fayetteville, AR) out of the garbage, after seeing the entrance and maintenance fees.

To enter for a studio (405 sf) its $80,000 with $1667 monthly fee.
To get a two bedroom (843 sf) its $155000 with a monthly fee of $2436
To get a village home, entrance fee is $305000 with main. fee of $3493. The home is 1600 sf, but there are bigger ones too. Also bigger prices.

These rates are for one person. You add $35000 for the second person for entrance fee, and another $1000 on top of the maintenance fee to add a second person.

In additon: There is a wait list ! You need to send a $2000 deposit with your app. which is non refundable ! This all provides lifetime care including nursing care if needed.

The place is gorgeous but so are the fees. It's going back into the trash right now.
I don't begrudge anyone if they want to do it and have the resources. Maybe they're worried about the final chapters of their lives and want their final years to be cared for in a manner they feel is appropriate for them.
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Old 11-19-2016, 02:28 PM
 
10,812 posts, read 8,058,272 times
Reputation: 17010
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxBarb View Post
To enter for a studio (405 sf) its $80,000 with $1667 monthly fee.
To get a two bedroom (843 sf) its $155000 with a monthly fee of $2436
To get a village home, entrance fee is $305000 with main. fee of $3493. The home is 1600 sf, but there are bigger ones too. Also bigger prices.

These rates are for one person. You add $35000 for the second person for entrance fee, and another $1000 on top of the maintenance fee to add a second person.
The monthly fee seems quite reasonable for what all is included:
http://butterfieldtrailvillage.org/w...sheet-pdf1.pdf
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Old 11-19-2016, 03:32 PM
 
14,258 posts, read 23,979,216 times
Reputation: 20051
Agreed. I would like to know what is included in the medical costs. That look very reasonable.
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:52 AM
 
13,314 posts, read 25,550,246 times
Reputation: 20487
I read in Erickson literature that the buy-in allows them to pay for the building of the facilities in the first place, plus in some CCRCs, the fee does not go up dramatically for increased levels of care.

I could see living in a CCRC if unable to drive anymore. But the buy-in could present a problem, although I should be in fine shape for monthly fees. I don't care about leaving an estate, but that is one issue with the large buy-in.

I just want an indoor pool and someone to cook for me!
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